| What has happened to the RCIA? |
Tue, 17 November 2009 06:24  |
Anne
Messages: 3023
Registered: April 2004 |
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RCIA has been in our parishes since the 1970's. The rite offers a vision, a journey, a structured way of forming newcomers to the Christian faith. RCIA also involves the parish community who should be actively involved in the rite embracing these newcomers to Christ. The rite is not a new one but restored from the tradition of the early days of the church. Early Christians believed that Baptism into Christ brings about a radical change in a person. The process evolved,was changed and corrected according to the time and needs. The restoration of the catechumenate was mandated by the Second Vatican Council in its Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy. It appeared to be working well. Our cathedrals were packed with catechumens and candidates at the Rite of Election. Our Easter Vigils have been glorious.
This year at my parish, we have 1 catechumen, last year, only 2 and one candidate.
How is RCIA in your neck of the woods? Have your numbers plummeted? Why do think that is? Do you think it could be because of the scandal, a traditional minded pope, indifference? Or.... does your parish have a successful RCIA?
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| Re: What has happened to the RCIA? |
Tue, 17 November 2009 07:25  |
Karl
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St Paul's is as robust as ever, but as a university community that's not shocking.
Most parishes and oratories I attended regularly or periodically in the 80s and 90s did not have large RCIA programs.
Since the Scandal noticeably affected the regularity of involvement of area Catholics, it should be no shock that it would down the line be reflected in diminished RCIA. Importantly, there also the operation of the rolling generations, demographically, where secularism is more of a presence than it used to be (though, it should be noted, this is an issue that ebbs and flows over history - there is no Hegelian march towards secularism: we've had tides of secularism and anti-clericalism recede in the past, too). I don't think the personality of a given pope is as much at issue in this area (B16 appears to draw larger crowds of youth than JP2, so go figure that one out).
[Updated on: Tue, 17 November 2009 07:26]
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| Re: What has happened to the RCIA? |
Tue, 17 November 2009 19:08 |
 Gabby
Messages: 400
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In the twelve years I've been in this parish we've had a 10 year old catechumen and a 30something Anglican come into full communion. In both cases the teaching was done one on one with the rites celebrated with each step. We had formed an RCIA team but by the time the catechumen came along the team had long ago disappeared due to moves.
Gabby
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Too traditional for the progressives & too progressive for the traditionalists
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| Re: What has happened to the RCIA? |
Wed, 18 November 2009 07:54 |
PS4Ever
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Registered: September 2007
Location: Midwest |
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We always have between 15 and 20 in our RCIA. This year I think is on the low end with 13 or 14. I haven't done much with them yet this year.
If someone were to come to me for personal advice on becoming a Catholic, I would suggest finding a good, holy, orthodox Priest who would do private sessions with them. I am weary of many RCIA programs.
Progressive Solemnity Forever!
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| Re: What has happened to the RCIA? |
Wed, 18 November 2009 08:18 |
Anne
Messages: 3023
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| PS4Ever wrote on Wed, 18 November 2009 07:54 |
Priest who would do private sessions with them.
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I don't think this is a wise choice for any priest these days.
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| Re: What has happened to the RCIA? |
Wed, 18 November 2009 08:22 |
PS4Ever
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Location: Midwest |
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| Anne wrote on Wed, 18 November 2009 08:18 |
| PS4Ever wrote on Wed, 18 November 2009 07:54 |
Priest who would do private sessions with them.
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I don't think this is a wise choice for any priest these days.
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There are lots of safe choices for priests (i.e. having a window installed in their office that faces a public hallway, leaving doors open, etc.)
Priests that truly want to evangelize the faith will do so, regardless of risks.
Progressive Solemnity Forever!
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| Re: What has happened to the RCIA? |
Wed, 18 November 2009 09:58 |
Karl
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Well, there is that, but what immediately came to my mind was Evelyn Waugh's inimitable skewering of Rex Mottram's (failed) conversion conversations with Fr Mowbray in Brideshead Revisited.
In response to Mowbray's question about what he (Rex) meant by prayer: "*I* don't mean anything. *You* tell me. . . . Right. So much for prayer. What's the next thing?"
In response to Mowbray's question about the number of the natures of Christ: "Just as many as you say, Father."
[Updated on: Wed, 18 November 2009 10:04]
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| Re: What has happened to the RCIA? |
Wed, 18 November 2009 10:59 |
Anne
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The RCIA is a process by which adults are introduced to the life of the Catholic Church. Three important elements that lead to conversion are Liturgical (teaching through prayer and worship), Catechetical(the systematic and organic delivery of the Deposit of faith) and Pastoral(a people to person endeavour, accomplished through relationships).
The three elements need to be part of the process in order that there is conversion of hearts in both the person seeking baptism and the community.
You can't get that with catechism sessions alone with Father.
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| Re: What has happened to the RCIA? |
Thu, 19 November 2009 09:54 |
PS4Ever
Messages: 1240
Registered: September 2007
Location: Midwest |
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| Anne wrote on Wed, 18 November 2009 10:59 |
The RCIA is a process by which adults are introduced to the life of the Catholic Church. Three important elements that lead to conversion are Liturgical (teaching through prayer and worship), Catechetical(the systematic and organic delivery of the Deposit of faith) and Pastoral(a people to person endeavour, accomplished through relationships).
The three elements need to be part of the process in order that there is conversion of hearts in both the person seeking baptism and the community.
You can't get that with catechism sessions alone with Father.
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RCIA has some dangerous, dangerous elements... Sessions alone with an orthodox, holy Priest lack some of those dangerous elements.
Progressive Solemnity Forever!
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| Re: What has happened to the RCIA? |
Thu, 19 November 2009 10:41 |
PS4Ever
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Registered: September 2007
Location: Midwest |
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| Anne wrote on Thu, 19 November 2009 10:10 |
dangerous, dangerous elements.
name them....
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Lay or Clergy Directors of RCIA sometimes:
1) have political (liberal) agendas to push
2) have ecclesiastical (liberal) agendas to push
3) create "new theology" based on what they want Catholicism to be
4) use unapproved text books, sources, etc...
5) create new and innovative "rituals" - some that are based in voodoo, paganism or pantheism
6) rarely do any serious Catholic educating (where is Augustine? Where is Aquinas?)
7) almost always bring their own modern and poor musical elements into sessions ("I will come to you in the silence... Do not be afraid I am with you... Ugh...")
8} Discourage traditional devotions (Rosary, Stations, Eucharistic Adoration, etc)
9) probably almost universally exclude the Extraordinary Form from their classes - but I'm betting they mention Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion.
[Updated on: Thu, 19 November 2009 10:42]
Progressive Solemnity Forever!
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| Re: What has happened to the RCIA? |
Thu, 19 November 2009 11:50 |
PS4Ever
Messages: 1240
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Location: Midwest |
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Again, this is not about all RCIA programs... but I'm betting a majority have at least some of the following problems - especially with those in leadership (both lay and clerics).
1)
They would rather talk about how Catholics should care about undocumented workers than about how Catholics should care about the unborn. They think social justice means redistribution of wealth by the government rather than by personal choice to give to charities. They often times hate the traditional family and want to open the doors to homosexual marriage or polygamy.
2)
They believe the laity should have a greater power in the Church, believe women should be ordained, question Papal infallibility, question loyalty to Rome and the Pope or even the local Bishop. They sometimes will mock, talk down about or unfairly depict the pre-Vatican II Church. Or they might ignore it entirely and just speak as though the Church began in 1970.
3)
Mass is just a super fun banquet, artificial contraception is fine in a loving marriage or even outside of it ("kids will be kids - better they be safe!"), the Eucharitic isn't for adoration it's only for eating, Mary might have sinned, Mary might not have been a virgin, *insert saint's name here* might not have existed, The church has the authority to ordain women but chooses not to, Christ might not have been both fully divine and fully human, it might not have been a virgin conception and birth, and you know what that Dan Brown fellow told us about Mary Magdalene...
4)
Just because something's published doesn't mean it's acceptable RCIA material.
5)
I've walked by rooms of RCIA rooms where there have been some weird things going on. I won't comment on what they are - but let me tell you that the devil was very happy with what was going on in those rooms. People gathered around plants and touching them, dancing around a room to drum beats, etc.. is not how one should become Catholic. I shudder to think of the states of the souls who lead those poor folks into thinking that was part ofthe True Church of Christ.
6)
Why not use St. Augustine's Confessions as the text for the RCIA? Use supplemental sources for some things, but journey through Augustine to find the faith. It would be quite moving. When I talk to many recent converts, many of them can't attribute anything to Augustine or Aquinas. It's very sad.
7)
Let's take a look through the "Christian Initiation" section of Gather Comprehensive 2:
For the Life of the World (Haas): Poorly composed, difficult to sing even by modern-music standards, horrible us/we-centered text.
Wade in the Water (African-American spiritual): Has it's place in some communities I'm sure, but a bunch of white folks singing "God's a gonna trouble the water" is not a pretty sight.
Who Calls You By Name (Haas): Unnecessary "echo" refrain.
Christ Will Be Your Strength (Haas): One liner.
There Is One Lord (Taize): Not bad.
Baptized in Water (Bunessan): Not bad.
Covenant Hymn (Cooney): Not sure if you should sing this to your spouse, your God or your dog... Poor text, poor melody, poor piece of music.
I Come With Joy (Land of Rest): Good.
O Breathe on Me, O Breath of God: Good.
Sweet Refreshment (Moore): Echoing again...
And though it's not listed in hat section, I think we've all seen RCIA programs singing "You are Mine" again and again. You Are Mine is wretched.
Does your RCIA encourage daily Rosaries? How often do they pray the Stations? How often does the class together go and adore our Lord in Eucharistic Adoration? What about plenary indulgences? Are they taught? Or are they even mentioned?
9)
I've seen many RCIA programs encourage new converts to become EMs.
How many RCIA programs encourage new converts to experience the Extraordinary Form of Holy Mass?
Progressive Solemnity Forever!
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| Re: What has happened to the RCIA? |
Thu, 19 November 2009 12:35 |
Anne
Messages: 3023
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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Karl is right...you are a troll.
You are a fraud, no Catholic in good standing would speak like you do. You have no understanding of what the RCIA is. You have no understanding of what the Eucharist is. You reject Vatican II. You don't even understand traditional church doctrine.
There was a case weird case a few years ago when someone traced an IP and the person was discovered. Maybe it's time to do that again.
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| Re: What has happened to the RCIA? |
Thu, 19 November 2009 12:58 |
PS4Ever
Messages: 1240
Registered: September 2007
Location: Midwest |
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I am not a troll.
I am a Catholic in good standing with the Church, however I'm not blind to all that is going on around me.
I understand what the RCIA is, but until we purge some liberal ideas out of the Church, I think it is flawed in many cases.
I understand what the Eucharist is.
I do not reject Vatican II. I reject what some ill-informed or agenda-driven people did in the name of Vatican II.
If people would rather that I stop posting here, I will.
I have the CMAA board to post on. They also are not closing their eyes tightly and saying that everything is fine in the Church. Everything is not fine. Change is needed and it's happening, but there's still much more about what has been done over the past 40 years that needs to be changed.
Progressive Solemnity Forever!
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| Re: What has happened to the RCIA? |
Thu, 19 November 2009 13:06 |
PS4Ever
Messages: 1240
Registered: September 2007
Location: Midwest |
Senior Member |
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| Anne wrote on Thu, 19 November 2009 12:35 |
There was a case weird case a few years ago when someone traced an IP and the person was discovered. Maybe it's time to do that again.
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I'm not sure what this even means, but I've gone to great lengths to keep my identity secret because of the fact that so many musicians are terminated and lose their livelyhood because they speak out on the internet about various abuses that happen. Even if what they post is true, someone may read into it the wrong way. It's sad that people can't post openly about what is happening in plain sight, but it's the truth of the church.
The terms of this site require that nobody post anything that is: "obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violate any laws." I have done none of this.
Progressive Solemnity Forever!
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| Re: What has happened to the RCIA? |
Thu, 19 November 2009 13:43 |
Gabby
Messages: 400
Registered: April 2004 |
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| PS4Ever wrote on Thu, 19 November 2009 15:50 |
6)
Why not use St. Augustine's Confessions as the text for the RCIA? Use supplemental sources for some things, but journey through Augustine to find the faith. It would be quite moving. When I talk to many recent converts, many of them can't attribute anything to Augustine or Aquinas.
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Has the average Catholic ever been able to attribute anything to Augustine or Aquinas?
[Updated on: Thu, 19 November 2009 13:44]
Gabby
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Too traditional for the progressives & too progressive for the traditionalists
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