Home » Religion and Ministry Discussions » Liturgical Renewal and the Reforms of Vatican II » To disagree is one thing, to slander is another.
| To disagree is one thing, to slander is another. |
Mon, 23 November 2009 06:54  |
Anne Messages: 3816 Registered: April 2004 |
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Why are the bishops not speaking to Catholics about this sin?
Slandering the President
John F. Kavanaugh S.J. | NOVEMBER 23, 2009
America Magazine
On Oct. 29 Glenn Beck ended his program on Fox TV with the words of Thomas Jefferson: “All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.” Beck himself certainly has not been silent. In lectures, best-selling books, a radio program and his television show, he has warned America of the coming tyranny under a conspiratorial president. Armed with videos and quotations ranging from the mindless and amoral behavior of some members of Acorn to reckless statements made by associates and appointees of President Obama, Beck connects dots to draw a web of radicals who are out to destroy America as the founders intended it.
The exposing of unethical practices or foolish statements as well as reasoned critique of health, economic and international policies are essential to our civil discourse. I, for one, am troubled by the administration’s policy in Afghanistan, its reliance on many of the financial wizards who led us into our present mess and its disorganized, sometimes tepid approach to health care reform.
But defamation by innuendo is something else. Glenn Beck and his radio twin, Rush Limbaugh, have since the president’s inauguration imputed tyrannical intentions to the man. Whether inflating episodes such as children singing a song about Mr. Obama, claiming that the president is a racist with a “deep-seated hatred of white people and white culture” or characterizing “Obama’s America” as an offspring of Maoism or Nazism, Beck and Limbaugh are stoking a fire of fear and anger against the president of the United States.
If you search the Internet for the phrase “Obama is…,” the top six possibilities offered are, “antichrist,” “idiot,” “racist,” “liar,” “Hitler,” “socialist.” A search for “Obama” and “destroying America” yields 719,000 sites.
Obama the destroyer has been a recent theme of Limbaugh. On June 4, Newsmax.com (a news partner of The Washington Times) reported that Rush Limbaugh, on the previous night’s news, told Sean Hannity that “like Osama Bin Laden, the president is trying to destroy America.” What Limbaugh really said was, “If Al Qaeda wants to demolish the America we know and love, they’d better hurry because Obama is beating them to it.” In an “On the Record” interview with Fox’s Greta Van Susteren on July 23 and 24, Limbaugh claimed that the president, who is “purposely destroying the economy,” wants “as little liberty and freedom as possible” for the American people. He wants to determine who is born and when we die. Bent on remaking the country, the president is allegedly causing joblessness on purpose. After
After saying that the “greatness of this country’s people is under assault,” Limbaugh concludes that the president “has contempt for the American people.”
As if that were not enough, on Nov. 1 “Fox News Sunday” gave Limbaugh 30 minutes to lob unchallenged assertions that Mr. Obama is an immature narcissist, an extreme radical intent on destroying the economy.
We have here the suggested embodiment of Glenn Beck’s tyrant, a president who wants to destroy America and its economy and to seize total control over our lives. These accusations should not be passed off as the musings of crackpots or satirical entertainers. No matter what the motives behind this demonizing, the act amounts to the highest of slanders. Limbaugh professes how much he loves this country, a Christian country, he insists. But does he realize that the Christian tradition holds calumny to be a serious sin?
Slander has emerged as a new genre for the Internet. I’m sure I am not the only one receiving “forward it on” e-mails from people alarmed at the coming downfall of our country, often with allusions to Hitler as a precursor to our present president.
Whatever our political leanings or fears for the future may be, let us hope that there is not someone out there who, having been seduced by slanderous innuendo, really thinks Barack Obama is as bad as Bin Laden and as tyrannical as Hitler. It is painful to consider what could happen in the face of such imagined tyranny. And let us pray that such actions are not inspired by John Wilkes Booth or Timothy McVeigh, with their shared motto, “sic semper tyrannis.” If a terrible assault on the president should occur, will Christians who advanced the slander of him be contrite? And will those of us who were silent be shamed?
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| Re: To disagree is one thing, to slander is another. |
Sat, 05 December 2009 12:26   |
Anne Messages: 3816 Registered: April 2004 |
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Hi Bob and welcome. What do think about this statement?
"If a terrible assault on the president should occur, will Christians who advanced the slander of him be contrite? And will those of us who were silent be shamed?"
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| Re: To disagree is one thing, to slander is another. |
Sat, 05 December 2009 12:57   |
Bobm Messages: 11 Registered: December 2009 Location: Florida |
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Those who will not speak out against evil share the guilt of the commission of that evil. Marxism is the enemy of Christianity, it always has been and always will be.
Make no mistake about it, Obama is a Marxist! He and his followers may choose some more palatable title, they may claim to be a more gentle sort of Marxist, but the path they will follow is guaranteed. No form of secular socialism can exist without tyranny as it's root!
For a Christian to support secular socialism it is to admit a failure of Christianity, it is to support secular government coercion to attain Christian ideals.
It is evil!
Bob
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| Re: To disagree is one thing, to slander is another. |
Wed, 09 December 2009 12:15   |
Bobm Messages: 11 Registered: December 2009 Location: Florida |
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Why must the "race card" rear it's ugly head in almost every contemporary debate? It is quite possible to oppose most of Barack Obama's goals without caring about his race!
The civil rights bills, to me, at any rate, were misguided because they replaced the concept of inalienable rights in the minds of many Americans. We have allowed and encouraged government to take the role of God in this. Government, of course was more than eager to play the part. Government will also be eager to replace religion altogether, when the opportunity comes.
It seems to me that all too many "religious" people are working for the end of spirituality and in favor of a secular faith. They may not be aware of it, but that won't matter in the end.
[Updated on: Wed, 09 December 2009 12:16] Bob
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| Re: To disagree is one thing, to slander is another. |
Wed, 09 December 2009 13:23   |
Katherine Messages: 437 Registered: April 2004 Location: USA |
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| Bobm wrote on Wed, 09 December 2009 15:15 | The civil rights bills, to me, at any rate, were misguided...
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See, Redsox1, there are people today who take the view the civil rights bills were wrong. So why is it out of bounds for Harry Reid to note that mainstream conservativism opposed civil rights in the 1960s and mainstream conservatives oppose health care reform today?
[Updated on: Wed, 09 December 2009 13:24]
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| Re: To disagree is one thing, to slander is another. |
Wed, 09 December 2009 13:24   |
redsox1 Messages: 61 Registered: August 2008 Location: MI |
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Katherine,
With all due respect, there were plenty of offensive comments made by more than a few "random radical protesters"
Do you ever watch MSNBC? How about some of the liberal Democrats on Capitol Hill?
Your defense of Sen. Reid's remarks is stunning to me. Very few people are arguing that health care reform is not needed. There are serious questions being posed by thoughtful people of BOTH major political parties about how the current leglislation before us will affect health care in this country. Have you looked at the polls lately? This is not some fringe group opposing the leglislation in its present form. You cannot make the comparison to civil rights with any seriousness. No one is being denied health care simply because of the color of their skin. In fact, no one can be denied health care in this country. Everyone who presents themselves in the emergency room must receive care. I'm not at all suggesting this is satisfactory. Far from it. The problem is not about health care, but about health care insurance, and it is indeed a serious problem. People of good-will can have different opinions about the HOW, not the what.
I have serious reservations about the current legislation. It does not mean I don't want people of all economic means to have easy access to health care. It certainly has nothing to do with race. To suggest that is ludicrous.
I am concerned about the many promises made by our federal government that cannot be kept at the rate we're goin: social security and medicare are in real trouble. The government has yet to show that it can act with any fiscal responsibility, and that goes for BOTH parties. To blindly follow off the edge of a cliff this president and supporters of this legislation simply because of political ideology and their stated good intentions is of great concern to me. What about abortion funding and end of life issues? Oh, and just in case you're curious, I happen to oppose the death penalty.
Debate and dissent are responsible excercises in a democracy, at least they used to be. Now, you're a racist, homophobic, bigot if you dare criticize, or simply ask a question about what the government is proposing that affects about 1/6 of our economy and the well-being of every citizen of this country.
Yes, we need civilized, thoughtful discussion.
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| Re: To disagree is one thing, to slander is another. |
Wed, 09 December 2009 13:33   |
Katherine Messages: 437 Registered: April 2004 Location: USA |
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| redsox1 wrote on Wed, 09 December 2009 16:24 | Katherine,
With all due respect, there were plenty of offensive comments made by more than a few "random radical protesters"
Do you ever watch MSNBC? How about some of the liberal Democrats on Capitol Hill?
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I missed it. Which liberal Democrats on Capitol Hill compared President Bush to Hitler, wished for Vice-President Cheney's demise or said horrible things about Tony Snow when he passed? I remember I had harsh words for something Congressman Stark said. I don't recall anything else by a Democrat on Capitol Hill.
| Quote: | Your defense of Sen. Reid's remarks is stunning to me. Very few people are arguing that health care reform is not needed. There are serious questions being posed by thoughtful people of BOTH major political parties about how the current leglislation before us will affect health care in this country. Have you looked at the polls lately? This is not some fringe group opposing the leglislation in its present form. You cannot make the comparison to civil rights with any seriousness.
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I have a very clear memory of the days when I worked for civil rights. Very few people then said they were for racism. Most of those who were considered serious and thoughtful conservatives (including our brother Catholic Bill Buckley) oppsed the civil rights legislation. They were not some fringe group. They represented mainstream conservativism. In fact, many of them saw me as an out of the mainstream radical.
Yes I do make the comparision to civil rights with seriousness. In my private judgment, I think 40 years from now mainstream conservativism will no more claim a heritage of oppositon to the 2009 health care bill than they do today as to civil rights legislation.
[Updated on: Wed, 09 December 2009 13:37]
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| Re: To disagree is one thing, to slander is another. |
Wed, 09 December 2009 13:55   |
Bobm Messages: 11 Registered: December 2009 Location: Florida |
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The civil rights bills did not create new rights, they simply claimed the inalienable rights ratified by the Constitution as the creation of secular government, and not the creations of God, as stated in the Constitition.
Some of you are accusing me of opposing equal rights, what I oppose is government ownership and control of rights. Anything government gives may be taken away, but my inalienable rights are beyond secular government.
Bob
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| Re: To disagree is one thing, to slander is another. |
Thu, 10 December 2009 06:04   |
Katherine Messages: 437 Registered: April 2004 Location: USA |
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| Bobm wrote on Wed, 09 December 2009 17:18 | "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness".
Good luck with your government issued rights, they don't come with a warranty!
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These rights are not issued by the government. They come from God. We, then, as a free people living in a democracy, through our elected representatives, recognize these rights and give them legal form.
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| Re: To disagree is one thing, to slander is another. |
Thu, 10 December 2009 08:12   |
Bobm Messages: 11 Registered: December 2009 Location: Florida |
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You are missig the point! "Civil Rights" and inalienable rights are not the same. There was no need for the civil rights bills, all that was needed was to affirm that the Constitution guaranteed equal rights for all. With the civil rights legislation the government took over from God.
Neither the administration or congress now believe that they are legally bound by the Constitution, the American people have let government trespass beyond it's limits so many times that government now sees no limits.
Bob
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| Re: To disagree is one thing, to slander is another. |
Thu, 10 December 2009 08:39   |
Karl Messages: 1306 Registered: April 2004 |
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So, you quote the Declaration of Independence on inalienable rights. The Constitution did not incorporate the Declaration. That's among the reasons why a Bill of Rights was demanded by anti-Federalists.
Now, with all those lovely statements of rights comes the question of how to enforce them. They are not self-enforcing, except by the powerful against the weak. In fact, the powerful showed a regular habit of unequal enforcement of the rights.
Then, in the Reconstruction Amendments, the Constitution gave Congress the power to equalize enforcement by statute. The civil rights acts are thus grounded themselves in the text of the Constitution. Now it took Congress several generations to make those statutes more effective, and for the courts to stop diluting their meaning and enforcement.
But your complaint is meritless.
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| Re: To disagree is one thing, to slander is another. |
Thu, 10 December 2009 09:22   |
Karl Messages: 1306 Registered: April 2004 |
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And your qualifier "current" is interesting. When did "current" begin? Certainly the Bush-Cheney government was the least concerned with the Constitution in living memory.
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| Re: To disagree is one thing, to slander is another. |
Thu, 10 December 2009 09:36   |
Bobm Messages: 11 Registered: December 2009 Location: Florida |
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My concern is now, I can't change history. Do you believe that past abuses justify present abuses? Do you justify current abuses because they further your personal agenda?
Bob
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| Re: To disagree is one thing, to slander is another. |
Thu, 10 December 2009 10:27   |
Karl Messages: 1306 Registered: April 2004 |
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And what did BobM do about past abuses? Or is his fervor newly fueled? What's his "personal agenda"?
And let us remember that Roberts and Alito were put on the SCOTUS not as pro-life votes but as pro-executive power votes, which was much more of a concern to the administration that appointed them.
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| Re: To disagree is one thing, to slander is another. |
Thu, 10 December 2009 10:49   |
Bobm Messages: 11 Registered: December 2009 Location: Florida |
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My personal agenda is American freedom, under the U.S. Constitution. I'm fed up with "the end justifies the means" as national policy.
Bob
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| Re: To disagree is one thing, to slander is another. |
Thu, 10 December 2009 11:56   |
Bobm Messages: 11 Registered: December 2009 Location: Florida |
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If you can't see the numerous end runs that have been made around the Constitution you haven't been paying attention. For that matter end runs around Holy Scripture abound, so I shouldn't be surprised when the Constitution is abused.
My premise is that secular socialism cannot exist except by force applied from the top, and the word for that is tyranny. I cannot see how any Christian can justify support for such a system.
Just call me dogmatic!
Bob
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| Re: To disagree is one thing, to slander is another. |
Thu, 10 December 2009 12:18  |
Karl Messages: 1306 Registered: April 2004 |
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You are dogmatic about epithets (figures of speech that stand in for content) but otherwise unspecific. It's like all the rage is there but none of the content. At this point, you risk being treated as a troll (which means no more feeding).
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