| Re: What If We Just Said Wait? |
Mon, 08 February 2010 12:28   |
 PS4Ever
Messages: 1240
Registered: September 2007
Location: Midwest |
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Perhaps that's because you still haven't answered the question I posed to on the (inappropriately named) Pre-Vatican II board.
However, I'll do my best to answer your questions now.
have never stated that the Tridentine form is celebrated there. Why is that?
We believe in celebrating the Ordinary Form in the way the Council Documents truly intended it to be celebrated. We have had Extraordinary Form Masses at our Parish, especially when visiting Priest friends of our Pastor are in town (from the FSSP/Institute of Christ the King).
"The local assembly gathered with its ministers at the Eucharistic table does not stand in for Christ but is Christ"
Perhaps you should give credit to Mark before using his quote again. Anyway.. It changes my opinions in no way. I have no desire to shake hands with anyone, hold hands with people during the Our Father (or do the ridiculous "communal orans"), or hug the woman next to me who throws her arms around a complete stranger despite the fact that my hands are folded prayerfully before me.
Do you believe this and if so how can anyone justify words like "I feel pretty uncomfortable touching a lot of random strangers" while they participate at a community liturgy? Flu season or not there is no way, unless we become recluse, that we can avoid germs.
I didn't say my desire to not touch/be touched during the Sign of Peace has anything to do with germs. It doesn't. I'm just not big on touching someone's hands after seeing/hearing them use those hands for various, sometimes disturbing, actions throughout the course of the past 45 minutes.
Progressive Solemnity Forever!
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| Re: What If We Just Said Wait? |
Tue, 09 February 2010 07:26 |
Anne
Messages: 3023
Registered: April 2004 |
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Remind me, what was your question? Your questions to me have either been trick questions or things we have discussed already. So sometimes I just choose to ignore.
The quote ""The local assembly gathered with its ministers at the Eucharistic table does not stand in for Christ but is Christ" is not Mark's quote.
It is from the publication Pastoral Liturgy explaining Pope Benedict's comment about Augustine's words"you yourselves are what you have received". The pope says the body of Christ gathered or assembled is the principal or integral subject of the liturgical action.
Well, you say not touching anyone during the SofP has nothing to with germs but then you go on to say "I'm just not big on touching someone's hands after seeing/hearing them use those hands for various, sometimes disturbing, actions throughout the course of the past 45 minutes."
Well,that's about germs and reasonable when it applies. (Last week I gave a friendly smile to the man behind us because he was hacking all through the mass, knowing full well if germs were spreading it was his cough doing the spreading)
However,how would you know what folks are doing with their hands? Are you watching people all the time? Shouldn't your focus be on the choir/organ and the liturgical actions taking place? Just sayin'
[Updated on: Tue, 09 February 2010 07:29]
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| Re: What If We Just Said Wait? |
Tue, 09 February 2010 08:54 |
PS4Ever
Messages: 1240
Registered: September 2007
Location: Midwest |
Senior Member |
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| Anne wrote on Tue, 09 February 2010 07:26 |
Remind me, what was your question? Your questions to me have either been trick questions or things we have discussed already. So sometimes I just choose to ignore.
The quote ""The local assembly gathered with its ministers at the Eucharistic table does not stand in for Christ but is Christ" is not Mark's quote.
It is from the publication Pastoral Liturgy explaining Pope Benedict's comment about Augustine's words"you yourselves are what you have received". The pope says the body of Christ gathered or assembled is the principal or integral subject of the liturgical action.
Well, you say not touching anyone during the SofP has nothing to with germs but then you go on to say "I'm just not big on touching someone's hands after seeing/hearing them use those hands for various, sometimes disturbing, actions throughout the course of the past 45 minutes."
Well,that's about germs and reasonable when it applies. (Last week I gave a friendly smile to the man behind us because he was hacking all through the mass, knowing full well if germs were spreading it was his cough doing the spreading)
However,how would you know what folks are doing with their hands? Are you watching people all the time? Shouldn't your focus be on the choir/organ and the liturgical actions taking place? Just sayin'
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My response to the Sign of Peace is when I'm at other Churches - at our Church 1) I'm at the organ and too far away from anyone to shake their hands 2) We don't do the Sign of Peace.
And when I'm at other Churches, yes I am trying to focus on the liturgy and not on those around me... but when the person directly in front of you has their fingers in their ears throughout the entire Mass, picking at things, I don't want to shake his hand when he turns around. To quote Seinfeld, that wasn't an itch... that was a pick.
Lots of humans have lots of disturbing behaviors that make me not want to shake their hands. I try to avoid it in secular life too. Nothing to do with germs - lots to do with what bodily fluids/molecules/etc are all over their hands.
Progressive Solemnity Forever!
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| Re: What If We Just Said Wait? |
Tue, 09 February 2010 11:40 |
Karl
Messages: 1167
Registered: April 2004 |
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Just don't touch any knobs, furniture, furnishings or holy water fonts in church with your hands....
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| Re: What If We Just Said Wait? |
Tue, 09 February 2010 15:22 |
PS4Ever
Messages: 1240
Registered: September 2007
Location: Midwest |
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| Karl wrote on Tue, 09 February 2010 11:40 |
Just don't touch any knobs, furniture, furnishings or holy water fonts in church with your hands....
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Would you rather touch a door knob that might have been touched by someone who had done something disturbing, or shake hands with someone who was picking stuff out of his ear just 5 minutes earlier and you witnessed it?
Progressive Solemnity Forever!
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| Re: What If We Just Said Wait? |
Tue, 09 February 2010 17:48 |
Karl
Messages: 1167
Registered: April 2004 |
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Shake hands. I grew up in a large Catholic family, where my mom was big on hygiene but we also learned not to sweat seemingly icky stuff that isn't nearly as problematic as things a lot of people don't find as icky; ear wax doesn't disturb me as it might others. 
[Updated on: Tue, 09 February 2010 17:51]
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| Re: What If We Just Said Wait? |
Tue, 09 February 2010 17:51 |
Karl
Messages: 1167
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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They are trying to hear the Word of God.
Btw, since you are so into Catholic traditionalism, there's a traditional Catholic cure for your situation: for you to exercise custody of your eyes.
[Updated on: Tue, 09 February 2010 17:55]
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| Re: What If We Just Said Wait? |
Sun, 14 February 2010 21:29 |
mmstrita
Messages: 760
Registered: January 2006
Location: South Florida |
Senior Member |
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PS4: trust me, I could care less if you shake hands or how you posture yourself in any position during mass...that's your business. However, I have to say that person who just picked at his body or picked out his ear wax placed that ear wax in the missal or music book you are using last week! What I am saying is along the lines of what Karl stated. One more thing, as much as I respect your position, I really, really think that you calling the orans position "ridiculous" is not fair.
Peace,
Ron
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| Re: What If We Just Said Wait? |
Mon, 15 February 2010 05:50 |
Augsburg Boy
Messages: 1614
Registered: May 2006
Location: Boston |
Senior Member |
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| Quote: |
title=mmstrita wrote on Sun, 14 February 2010 21:29]One more thing, as much as I respect your position, I really, really think that you calling the orans position "ridiculous" is not fair.
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Slight diversion here, but isn't the orans position from the Temple worship? I would take a guess that over half of our congregation use the Orans position during the prayers of the faithful...and like yourself Ron, have no idea why pissed off forever would object to it, I mean, one person's orans position is another persons hands in the pockets position. 
On the bright side, we stand a better chance of seeing the pope in our church than PS4er.
[Updated on: Mon, 15 February 2010 05:51]
Randy
When I stand before God at the end of my life, I would hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left and could say, "I used everything you gave me."
Erma Bombeck
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| Re: What If We Just Said Wait? |
Mon, 15 February 2010 17:15 |
mmstrita
Messages: 760
Registered: January 2006
Location: South Florida |
Senior Member |
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Not sure if it comes from temple worship, but orans is Latin for "praying." So, substituting the English: "the ridiculous praying posture!!"
Peace,
Ron
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