| Forum: Liturgical Renewal and the Reforms of Vatican II |
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| Topic: Papal resignation/Conclave |
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| Papal resignation/Conclave |
Mon, 25 February 2013 12:48 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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What are your thoughts regarding the historical resignation of Pope Benedict?
What are you hoping for in the next papacy? Who might fulfill those hopes?
Lets hear from former and new posters. Let's break the silence and discuss.
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| Topic: 10 Ways Catholic Life is Better |
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| Topic: Vatican II 50 years |
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| Vatican II 50 years |
Sun, 19 February 2012 05:20 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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Here's a look back at The Council as it was happening day to day. Thanks to Deacon Eric Stotlz.
http://conciliaria.com/
We believed the Spirit was leading us back then. There was much hope that the institutional church was changing. We began to see ourselves as "church". A door was opened wide. I want to believe too wide to close, but lately I wonder about that. Do you?
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| Topic: Priest forced to resign for praying |
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| Topic: JUDY BEAUMONT'S ORDINATION January 21, 2012 |
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| JUDY BEAUMONT'S ORDINATION January 21, 2012 |
Tue, 24 January 2012 06:59 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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More than 200 attended her ordination. She was warned of excommunication.
"..."But Beaumont said she rejects any excommunication."I will still consider myself a faithful Catholic," she said. "We are not leaving the church. We are creating a new model of the church."Beaumont replied to Dewane in a late-December letter."I understand that you are fulfilling your obligation as Bishop and I take your words seriously," she wrote. "However, I must reply that as I have tried throughout my life to answer the call of the Gospel to serve God's people, I must again answer this new call to sacramental ministry with the poor and otherwise marginalized people in our midst."
"Bishop Bridget Mary Meehan, who will preside over Beaumont's ordination, says she considers several letters of excommunication she received following her own ordination "as badges of honor.""The church has a habit of excommunicating holy women and men, such as burning Joan of Arc at the stake," she said. "Pope Benedict himself has canonized two previously ex-communicated nuns -- Mother Theodore Guerin and Mary MacKillop -- making excommunication a new fast-track to canonization. Meehan said she has the apostolic succession required by the Roman Catholic Church to ordain Beaumont as a priest because she herself was ordained by Bishop Patricia Fresen in 2009, who was ordained by a male bishop in communion with the Pope."Social justice, a love of the Church, the Church liturgy, and the holy people of the Church," Beaumont said. "Those were the values instilled in me as a child."
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| Topic: Christmas cookies... |
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| Topic: New Translation...first week |
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| New Translation...first week |
Sun, 27 November 2011 06:10 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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How was it at your parish?
I heard lots of stumbling even with heads buried in pew cards and missalettes. I know that part will get better with time.
I thought our elderly presider did quite well with the prayers but I could tell he was nervous.
I'm still not a fan of this "sacred vernacular". I never will be. However, it won't force me from the Table.
After mass I heard more negative comments than positive but not a whole lot of talk about the new translation. The people were more interested in getting their tag off the Giving Tree...that's a good thing and the right Christian attitude.
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| Topic: Saying Goodby to the Sacramentary |
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| Topic: Thread at Pray Tell not getting enough attention |
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| Topic: Reform of the Reform slowly dying |
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| Topic: Communion from the Cup in Phoenix |
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| Communion from the Cup in Phoenix |
Sat, 08 October 2011 06:07 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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It's been awfully quiet here on the boards lately. I post topics from time to time that are interesting to me. Anyone else got anything? Newcomers welcomed!
Thist article written by Rita Ferrone at Commonweal is well written, interesting and informative....to me anyway. It's about Bishop Olmsted's decision to withdraw permission for communion from the Cup on most Sundays in the Phoenix diocese.
http://www.commonwealmagazine.org/blog/?p=15435
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| Topic: Steve Jobs |
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| Steve Jobs |
Thu, 06 October 2011 05:18 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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Rest in Peace....a man who whose life has impacted millions of lives. His God given gifts made this world a smaller world and made it easier to communicate with one another. He helped make our lives,our jobs,our ministries so much easier.
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| Topic: Hans Kung interview |
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| Topic: Wise words about dissent |
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| Wise words about dissent |
Fri, 23 September 2011 06:45 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/can-we-talk
Robert McClory NCR:
I have this idea of a debate on dissent in the church, or better, a series of debates between qualified representatives from left and right -- no grandstanding, no polarizing, no gotcha questions, no yelling.
Undoubtedly, the result would not lead to mass conversions from either camp, but it just might lower the decibel level, even set a tone of respect we haven't seen in a long time.
Somehow, we've got to get out of this quagmire that has turned Catholicism into the quintessential dysfunctional family of the 21st century.
I have been trying to figure out a way of doing Something like this there on these boards.
Anyone?Any ideas?
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| Topic: The Common Good |
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| The Common Good |
Sat, 03 September 2011 05:30 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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http://ncronline.org/news/justice/tough-times-remember-value s-commons
I'm reminded that the Second Vatican Council insisted, the 'grief and anguish' of the people of our time, "especially of those who are poor or afflicted in any way . . . are the grief and anguish of the followers of Christ as well" (Gaudium et Spes, no. 1).
What are your thoughts this Labor Day 2011 in this continuing economic turmoil?
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| Topic: New mass at St. Paul Cathedral, PittsburghPA |
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| New mass at St. Paul Cathedral, PittsburghPA |
Wed, 31 August 2011 20:49 |
 exmonk2004
Messages: 120
Registered: April 2004
Location: Pittsburgh PA |
Senior Member |
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With regard to the new missal translations, several colleagues have asked me to let them know what we decide to use at the cathedral. Beginning in October we will sing:
Gloria Antiphonal Mass - John Lee
Holy, Holy, Holy - Community Mass R. Proulx
Memorial Acclamation - Community Mass R. Proulx
Amen - Community Mass R. Proulx
is is from the Cathedral Organist
Donald Fellows.
Personally I am thinking of the Belmont Mass (walker)
it is chant-like with a bit more of a melody...and
I think easy to learn....
still not sure what to do at this moment
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| Topic: Hermeneutics as Weapon |
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| Hermeneutics as Weapon |
Sun, 28 August 2011 06:49 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/hermeneutics-weapon
"Indeed, Vatican II did teach a new language, and most Catholics welcomed it. But it has little resemblance to the language Morlino wants us to learn. In his book, What Happened at Vatican II, historian John O'Malley vividly contrasts the pre-Vatican II emphasis on church teaching with the new emphasis the council had introduced. The shift, he said, was "from commands to invitation, from laws to ideals, from definition to mystery, from threats to persuasion, from coercion to conscience, from monologue to dialogue, from ruling to serving, from withdrawn to integrated, from vertical to horizontal, from exclusion to inclusion, from hostility to friendship, from rivalry to partnership, from suspicion to trust ...from fault finding to appreciation ...from behavior modification to inner appropriation."
Turn that paragraph around, and you will see the direction in which the church as institution is being moved today: from invitations to commands, from persuasion to threats, from conscience to coercion, from trust to suspicion, from inclusion to exclusion, etc. etc.
New developments ranging from the excommunication of anyone assisting at a woman's ordination, to the forced resignation of a bishop who even speaks about the subject, to the exclusion of girl servers in some parishes or dioceses, to a surprise assault by a bishops' doctrine committee on the book of an eminent theologian, to the suggestion by the executive director of that committee that some theologians today are "a curse and affliction upon the church" -- these are the direct results we can expect from an exaggerated, extremist misuse of a "hermeneutics of continuity" to quash all discussion."
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| Topic: Hurricane Irene |
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| Topic: Boston Archdiocese list of accused clergy |
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| Topic: possible agreement with SSPX? |
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| Topic: Assumption of the BVM |
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| Assumption of the BVM |
Mon, 15 August 2011 12:08 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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On August 15, the church celebrates The Assumption of Mary into Heaven. Joan Chittister writes of this feast, "Mary of the Assumption teaches us to develop a vision outside of ourselves; to allow ourselves to be lifted up beyond the petty and the transient to the eternal and the unalloyed."
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| Topic: Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children... |
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| Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children... |
Fri, 05 August 2011 08:00 |
PhiMuAlpha2681
Messages: 714
Registered: November 2004
Location: Camp Hill, PA |
Senior Member |
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Cover story in the new USCCB BCDW July newsletter, which just arrived in my inbox.
Quote:CDWDS Grants Reprint of Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children and Collection of Masses of the Blessed Virgin Mary
On July 19, 2011, Archbishop Timothy Dolan, USCCB President, received from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments a response to an inquiry regarding the use of the Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children and the Collection of Masses of the Blessed Virgin Mary once the Roman Missal, Third Edition, is introduced this Advent. This question was originally proposed by Cardinal Francis George, O.M.I., during his visit to the Congregation last year in his capacity as then-USCCB President. In the response (Prot. n. 692/11/L), Archbishop J. Augustine Di Noia, OP, Secretary of the Congregation, states:
Quote:Having now attentively studied the matter, this Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has concluded that nothing stands in the way of the continued use of these texts and, for that purpose, to be reprinted, in accord with the norm of liturgical law, until such time as revised translations of these texts have been approved by the Bishops and have received the recognitio of this Dicastery.
In communicating this decision, the Congregation noted that the updated words of institution should be used in the Eucharistic Prayers, and that the people's responses and acclamations should be updated to reflect the text of the Roman Missal, Third Edition. In the Collection of Masses of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the new text of the Order of Mass should be inserted, and the concluding formulae of the orations should be updated to reflect the newer text.
The Secretariat of Divine Worship will begin work immediately to prepare the necessary adjustments to the texts and see to their publication as soon as possible. The text of the Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children will be published by USCCB Communications as a supplement to the Roman Missal, Third Edition (similar to the current supplemental text of the Eucharistic Prayers for Various Needs and Occasions), and it should be available in time for the implementation of the Missal this Advent. The text of the Directory for Masses with Children is planned as an introductory text for this supplement. The Congregation suggested that it would be helpful to remind pastors of the regulations regarding the use of the Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children, a topic which will be addressed in the next issue of the Newsletter.
The Collection of Masses of the Blessed Virgin Mary was originally published by both Catholic Book Publishing Company and Liturgical Press. The Secretariat is in contact with both publishers to work toward the release of updated editions.
An artist can be truly evaluated only after he is dead. At the very 11th hour, he might do something that will eclipse everything else.
-- Van Cliburn
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| Topic: Catholics Come Home |
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| Catholics Come Home |
Sat, 30 July 2011 08:31 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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I have posted about this program before.
http://www.catholicscomehome.org/index.php
They claim thousands of Catholics are returning as a result. Really?!
There was a report in Boston not long ago that only 17% of Catholics were coming to Sunday Eucharist. That's just horrible! ! How can they say CCH is working?
Personally I don't see that Catholics will return unless the Church addresses the issues that are keeping people away.
Feel free to add to my list of why Catholics leave and are not returning. There is no order of importance.
The abuse and coverup by bishops has alienated thousands. People here (especially non practicing Catholics) still talk about Cardinal Law and how he was given a pretty nice appointment in Rome after being run out of Boston.
Women are not given equality in church ministry.
Forbidding the many divorced and remarried good Catholics to come to communion.
Pointing to certain political views and barring people with these views from communion.
Telling couples that contraception or IVF is wrong. Teaching about morality and sexual issues may be important but the Church is preoccupied with these issues. Put more importance on teaching the Gospel!
Abortion Is wrong but the Church's way of trying criminalize it is not working and attracts too many fanatics. There should be a new way of approaching the issue.
Roman power politics is keeping many away and here comes the controversial new translation being forced on us.
Stop being anti gay. Telling homosexuals that they live disordered and sinful lives is slamming church doors in their faces. Same sex civil unions are not hurting my marriage or family life...how about you? Take the energy put into protesting state laws and put it into better diocese and parish marriage prep and ongoing support programs.
I'm sure I've left some thing off. The above in my opinion are issues driving people away that CCH will not succeed at bringing home.
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| Topic: Chaput for Philadelphia |
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| Topic: New Roman Missal..It Doesn't Sing |
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| New Roman Missal..It Doesn't Sing |
Sat, 02 July 2011 07:20 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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I could not get the actual link to this article to work..
Go here:
http://commonwealmagazine.org/
then
find "Most read stories on the site"
Click.."It Doesn't Sing" Rita Ferrone
"Where is this new translation taking us? It is important to realize that negative responses to the new translation reflect both dismay at the wording of the text and disagreement with the principles that guided its production. Yet the conflict goes deeper than an argument over theories of translation. That the new translation of the Roman Missal should come to us replete with embarrassing gaffes, nonsensical passages, and a near-total lack of accountability is as clearly a symptom of the misuse of authority as it is the fault of the questionable set of translation principles enunciated in Liturgiam authenticam. Yet even the misuse of authority is not the root cause of the immense disquiet and even outrage that this translation has aroused."
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| Topic: Ordination ban not infallibly taught |
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| Topic: Bishops at center of abuse scandal, and potential reform |
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| Topic: Infallibility is all in the mind |
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| Topic: Pope John XXIII Santos subito! |
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| Topic: Colbert hung over from Lent |
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| Topic: concern over divisions within the Church |
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| concern over divisions within the Church |
Sat, 23 April 2011 12:27 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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Robert Mickens writes a column in The Tablet called "Letter from Rome". I'm not a subscriber so I can't post a link. Pray Tell posted this much. It includes concern over the undermining of Vatican II from Father Enzo Bianchi:
There's no denying it. Many people involved in the Church admit they are tired out, or in any case without hope." Thus begins a disturbing article in the latest issue of the Italian monthly Jesus. The author is Enzo Bianchi, prior of the Monastery of Bose near Turin. For decades he has been one of the best-selling spiritual authors in Italy and a nationally recognized symbol of mainstream Catholicism. His recent article should make Catholics everywhere stop and think.
"This is not an easy moment for the Church, because the Church itself is lacerated and divided," writes Bianchi. He says this is partly because various groups of Catholics are at odds over how to respond to the changing "cultural climate". "But I believe we must recognise that there are also aspects of the inner life of the Church that are helping to making us weary. Many Catholics are working against Vatican II by criticising it and distancing themselves from it; by working against ecumenism and the liturgical reform."
Those Catholics who "struggled to change" nearly 50 years ago, and obediently followed "the directives of the Council and the Pope", are now filled with "confusion" and even "frustration" by this suspicious attitude towards Vatican II. And he says he is personally tired of opposing church factions waging their "wars" through blogs.
"I am nearly 70. I have worked my entire life for church unity and communion within my Church, but today I see many contradictions," writes Bianchi. "And I ask with many others: where is the Church heading? This, our Church, that we have loved so much, and want to continue to love, as members that are loyal not ones who are adulterous or who are looking for privileges and promotions."
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| Topic: Holy Saturday |
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| Holy Saturday |
Sat, 23 April 2011 05:16 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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There is no liturgy on Holy Saturday. Today is about reflecting on Jesus' death.
Darkness
The Easter Vigil begins with darkness. The darkness itself is
the first movement of the liturgy, so we begin our preparations
with that darkness. It represents all darkness, and all the
meanings of darkness - devoid of light; evil thoughts,
motivations, deeds; all that is hidden and secret, deceitful and
dishonest, divisive and abusive, immoral and sinful. It's the
darkness of our world, and the darkness in my heart. If I
come to the vigil and restlessly and impatiently fidget in the
dark "until something happens," I miss the power of what is
about to happen. So, we prepare by readying ourselves to
experience the darkness. It is distasteful and reprehensible,
embarrassing and humbling, fearful and despairing.
Then a light is struck. It breaks into the darkness.
"Make this new fire holy, and inflame us with new hope."
"May the light of Christ, rising in glory, dispel the darkness
of our hearts and minds."
from Creighton University Online Ministries
[Updated on: Sat, 23 April 2011 05:19]
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| Topic: More Vangheluwe's in Catholicisms' future? |
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| Topic: Father Eric Hodgens and Cardinal Pell |
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| Topic: pittsburgh gets new aux. bishop |
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| Topic: New Zealand reacts to new translation |
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| Topic: The Impending Liturgical ' Reform' Re-Visited |
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| The Impending Liturgical ' Reform' Re-Visited |
Tue, 15 February 2011 13:56 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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In All Things
Posted at: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 12:51:57 PM
Author: John Coleman, S.J.
"I also strongly oppose the shift in the new words of consecration which now say that Jesus' blood is shed for all men and women. In the new translation it will say:" The blood which is shed for the many". This new translation does, of course, capture the scriptural words used for the last supper when Jesus said to his disciples: " This is the blood of the covenant, which is poured out for the many for the forgiveness of sins." ( Matthew 26:26). The Latin word, multis, is, itself, perhaps, a mistranslation of the original Greek word, Pollown,which refers to 'the many' ( an expression already found in Isaiah) to indicate a substantially large, indeed capacious, number, equivalently all. It was not meant to indicate that Jesus only died for ' some' and not for others or that he and God do not wish the salvation of all!"
"Baldovin helpfully explains a useful typology of critics of the liturgical reforms at Vatican II. In this typology, we see different agendas in the church about liturgy: (1) Advancing the official reform; ( 2) restoring the pre-conciliar liturgy; ( 3) Accepting elements of the reform but further reforming the reform. Some felt the initial translations, for example, did not sufficiently present us with a kind of'sacred aura' language, different from everyday or banal speech. They would cheer the return of " and with your spirit" and not just " and also with you". Some others feel that Vatican II's emphasis on the eucharist as a meal ( mirroring the last supper and the heavenly banquet) slighted the other notion of the mass as sacrifice ( the Pascal sacrifice of Jesus in his death and resurrection). But there is a theological danger in some notions of ' sacrifice'--as if God needed some scapegoat for humanity's sins to right his righteous wrath. Some critics felt that the mass had become too much a celebration of the people gathered ( a feel good rite) and not enough of an acceptance of God's gift in the sacrifice of Jesus. Some want more silence in the liturgy or more reverence shown in receiving communion."
follow this link for the whole blog post:
http://www.americamagazine.org/blog/entry.cfm?blog_id=2& entry_id=3901
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| Topic: Did Archbishop Dolan move money... |
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| Topic: clown masses and cappa magna |
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| Topic: Twenty-Something Catholics: The lost generation? |
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