Today's Messages (off)
| Unanswered Messages (on)
| Forum: Pre-Vatican II Liturgy |
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| Topic: The Bible and the Liturgy Conference |
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| The Bible and the Liturgy Conference |
Mon, 08 September 2008 14:42 |
 M Anon
Messages: 1251
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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This looks as if it would be quite interesting (although I regret to inform that all of the presenters seem to suffer from chromosomal deficiency.)
A two-day conference on The Bible and the Liturgy will take place September 19-20 at the University of Saint Mary of the Lake Conference Center, Mundelein, Illinois. Sponsored by the Liturgical Institute, Mundelein, and the St. Paul Center for Biblical Theology, the event will address the Biblical roots of salvation and its manifestation in the sacred liturgy of the Church.
Featured speakers include Scott Hahn, Jeff Cavins, Brant Pitre, Father Robert Barron, Lynne Boughton, David Fagerberg, John Cavadini, Father Douglas Martis, William Portier and Denis McNamara.
The first day will feature academic papers and responses, and the second day’s presentations, of more general interest, will conclude with Mass. Both days are open to the public.
For registration and other information, visit the Liturgical Institute web site: http://www.usml.edu/liturgicalinstitute/conferences/bible%20 and%20liturgy/bible%20home.htm
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| | Topic: Use of ICEL Materials on Global Computer Networks |
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| Use of ICEL Materials on Global Computer Networks |
Sat, 30 August 2008 11:06 |
M Anon
Messages: 1251
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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This doesn't seem to appear on ICEL copyright summary page, or in the 25 page PDF of their "complete" pulbication policy.
http://www.musicasacra.com/ordinary/
Use of ICEL Materials on Global Computer Networks
ICEL texts and translations that have been approved by the Conferences of Bishops, have received the recognition of the Holy See, and have subsequently been promulgated for use on the date established by the Conferences of Bishops may be reproduced in a non-commercial site (“Site”) on the global computer network commonly known as the internet without obtaining written or oral permission, subject to the following conditions:
1. there must be no fee charged to access the Site or any of the ICEL translations, texts, or music, thereon;
2. The appropriate ICEL copyright acknowledgment must appear on the first and last pages and/or frames within the Site displaying the ICEL translation or text (see www.icelweb.org and click on “copyright policies“);
3. The ICEL translations and texts must be followed exactly;
4. These policies do not grant a license to publish texts in any other form or any other right in ICEL’s name and marks, and the Site may not display the ICEL translations or texts or otherwise use the ICEL name in any way that implies affiliation with, or sponsorship or endorsement by, ICEL;
5. ICEL reserves the right to terminate or modify its permission to use its translations and texts;
6. ICEL reserves the right to take action against any party that fails to conform to these policies, infringes any of its intellectual property rights, or otherwise violates applicable law.
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| | Topic: Bishops Ask Catholics To Pray Election Novena |
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| Bishops Ask Catholics To Pray Election Novena |
Sat, 23 August 2008 19:50 |
M Anon
Messages: 1251
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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http://www.usccb.org/comm/archives/2008/08-117.shtml
WASHINGTON—The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) invites U.S. Catholics to pray before the November election a novena for life, justice, and peace called Novena for Faithful Citizenship. It is a podcast and available for download.
Joan Rosenhauer, Associate Director for the USCCB’s Department of Justice, Peace and Human Development, said that the special novena is part of “the bishops’ campaign to help Catholics develop well-formed consciences for addressing political and social questions.” The bishops issued their statement on forming consciences for faithful citizenship in November 2007.
Helen Osman, USCCB Secretary of Communications, expressed hope that the novena could help “Catholics enter into prayerful reflection as they prepare to vote.” Seventy-one percent of all visitors to the USCCB’s web site download the free podcasts of the daily NAB readings. These same visitors are encouraged to use the novena podcast for prayer. Osman said that the USCCB wants to support Catholics as they weigh pre-election issues and that “providing a prayer resource on the Web can help us focus on our common values and identity as Catholics.” The novena emphasizes the dignity of life, justice, and peace.
The Novena for Faithful Citizenship runs for nine days and can be used consecutively, one day each week, for nine days prior to the election, or “in any way that works best for a community or individual,” said Rosenhauer.
Novena for Faithful Citizenship
Immaculate Heart of Mary,
help us to conquer the menace of evil,
which so easily takes root in the hearts of the people of today,
and whose immeasurable effects
already weigh down upon our modern world
and seem to block the paths toward the future.
From famine and war, deliver us.
From nuclear war, from incalculable self-destruction, from every kind of war, deliver us.
From sins against human life from its very beginning, deliver us.
From hatred and from the demeaning of the dignity of the children of God, deliver us.
From every kind of injustice in the life of society, both national and international, deliver us.
From readiness to trample on the commandments of God, deliver us.
From attempts to stifle in human hearts the very truth of God, deliver us.
From the loss of awareness of good and evil, deliver us.
From sins against the Holy Spirit, deliver us.
Accept, O Mother of Christ,
this cry laden with the sufferings of all individual human beings,
laden with the sufferings of whole societies.
Help us with the power of the Holy Spirit conquer all sin:
individual sin and the “sin of the world,”
sin in all its manifestations.
Let there be revealed once more in the history of the world
the infinite saving power of the redemption:
the power of merciful love.
May it put a stop to evil.
May it transform consciences.
May your Immaculate Heart reveal for all the light of hope.
ALL: Amen.
The Novena for Faithful Citizenship is based on the Novena for Justice and Peace. Novena for Faithful Citizenship © 2008, 1988 United States Conference of
Catholic Bishops, Washington, DC. All rights reserved. Permission is granted to reproduce this text without change for free distribution in a parish or school.
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| | Topic: Interesting blog on Liturgy |
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| Interesting blog on Liturgy |
Sun, 17 August 2008 14:34 |
M Anon
Messages: 1251
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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I can vouch for none of this, but it certainly is provocative.
The author is Byzantine Catholic, I think.
http://pauca_lux_ex_oriente.blogspot.com/2008/08/why-modern- roman-catholic-music-sucks.html
Friday, August 15, 2008
Why (Modern) Roman Catholic Music Sucks so Much
Now that I have got your attention, I will attempt to answer the question posed above.
At first, I simply thought that it was simply because the texts which have been translated into English were so poorly translated. After all, our Lord said that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into heaven. And it was Mark Twain who said that a camel was a horse created by a committee. It is an obvious conclusion (at least to those who have drunk enough) that it is easier for a text written by committee to express the will of the Holy Spirit (other, of course, than an ecumenical counsel which specifically requested the aid of that Spirit) than it is for a rich person to enter into heaven. Or something like that.
Since the ICEL is one of the most uninspired and uninspiring committees that I have observed in the existence of recorded history, I thought that that was sufficient to explain the phenomenon. When both the eminent Fathers Zuhlsdorf and O'Leary are agreed on something, it must be beyond dispute.
Nonetheless, it would appear that other than some of the lamest translation into English that I have ever seen since the Norton Anthology of English Literature, there may be another reason besides the ICEL translations why Modern Roman Catholic Music sucks so much.
I mean to say, after all, we do have a number of good composers of liturgical music up and about these days. Henrik Gorecki is doing a capable job, as are Arvo Part, Ivan Moody, Sergei Glagolev, and even Sir John Tavener. The point is that all of them are Orthodox, and not Roman Catholic, composers.
However, all of these composers have two things going for them. The first is that they have decent translations to work with. Gorecki is working with Latin, Part is working with Slavonic, and the others are working with decent translations into English, Spanish and Portuguese. Even Sir John Tavener is working with the mock Elizabethan of the late Isobel Hapgood, which is better by far than anything that ICEL could muster.
But there is another factor. Everyone except ICEL puts their texts online, and allows you to use their texts without a hefty demand for royalties. Try googling liturgical texts for the Book of Common Prayer, or the Orthodox Church in America, or the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of North and South America. Hell, try accessing the Southern Baptists or the Presbyterians. No difficulty, and no problem.
Then try finding any online texts for ICEL. Good luck. Or perhaps I should say, fat chance. Some good people have attempted to put ICEL texts online so that people could actually see what they said (or more to the point, did not say.) In each case, the minions of ICEL acted to make them take those texts off the internet. How transparent. How communicative. How helpful.
But the real killer is what the ICEL charges in royalties. I took the opportunity to access the ICEL's statement on copyright, which includes their sample contract, which they impose on anyone so foolish to attempt to use their texts in a liturgical setting. Basically, if you were to use ICEL texts exclusively for a musical setting, ICEL charges between 10% and 11% of the price of the text as their share of royalties.
I will beg to point out that the standard in which most choral music publishers give to composers is 10 percent. In other words, if a composer were so foolish as to use an ICEL text for his or her work, all of the royalties would go to ICEL, instead of the composer. Is it any wonder why composers are somewhat less than willing to use ICEL texts?
But wait: it gets even better. The Sample Contract (which is on and after page 20 of the PDF text) states in Section 7 of the Contract that if anyone fails to pay royalties on the disputed text, that they forfeit all rights under the contract. In short, that means that all rights to their work goes to ICEL. How Christian. How generous of them.
But wait, there's more: Under section 9 of the Sample Contract, in the event that the Publisher fails to keep the publication in print, the contract is void, and ICEL gets all rights in the work. Oh, yes, and under section 16 of the Sample Contract, in the event that the publisher becomes insolvent or bankrupt, all rights revert to ICEL as well.
I don't know about you, but it looks as though ICEL's prophetic leadership strongly resembles the Gospel according to Geffen.
And I don't know about you, but it would appear to me that any composer of choral music with an IQ above room temperature is likely to tell ICEL where they can pound sand. I would not blame them.
And for the author of the estimable blog, Do Geese See God, I would have to tell him that, for the foregoing reasons, I doubt that he will see good musical settings of the propers of the English Novus Ordo anytime soon. I am terribly sorry about that.
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| | Topic: USCCB releases revised English Order of Mass for formation education |
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| | Topic: Dedication of the Shrine to Our Lady of Guadalupe |
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| Dedication of the Shrine to Our Lady of Guadalupe |
Thu, 31 July 2008 14:10 |
M Anon
Messages: 1251
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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Anyone watching this?
http://www.catholicexchange.com/2008/07/29/112974/
What I was able to catch was very beautiful, very well done liturgy.
I have never had the opportunitty to attend a Roman Catholic church dedication, (been to a Byzantine, and to RC re-dedications.)
Archbishop Burke has been a great blessing to the people of the Church!
All the music seemed well-chosen to promote participation, and, when newly composed, to remain true to the values of authentic liturgical music.
(This is not, of course, a pre-Vatican II liturgy, but I do not see the point of trying to post on the new Womens Ordination Blog at http://www.rpinet.com/wforum/index.php?t=thread&frm_id=1 6&rid=261&S=2edbf1ee8c0bf60659167f9220ee0d41...)
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| | Topic: The Pope's New Youth Mass |
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| The Pope's New Youth Mass |
Mon, 28 July 2008 06:52 |
leoxiii
Messages: 139
Registered: June 2006
Location: New York City |
Senior Member |
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Link: The New Liturgical Movement
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Monday, July 21, 2008
The Pope's New Youth Mass
by Jeffrey Tucker
Here is my column for the Wanderer, which repeats much of what you have already read on this blog. Still, maybe it is a help to have it in one place.
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Some of the worst liturgical abuses in the last decades have taken place in the name of appealing to the youth. Liturgists set up this category called the "youth" to be an archetype within a dialectical drama that pit tradition against innovation. The youth were supposedly uninspired by solemnity and preferred laxity, pop music, casual celebrant demeanor, and practices such as liturgical dance and liturgical puppeteering that had no precedent in the entire history of the Roman Rite. The music in particular is my concern here, and in this area we heard the use of music that was not only incompatible with true spirit of the Mass but utterly contrary to it. The idea was that the Catholic Church had better embrace this stuff else it risks losing an entire generation.
So many parishes complied, first with set-aside youth Masses in which all heck broke loose, and any savvy Catholic in America knows exactly what I mean by that. Then the next step took place: the culture of these Masses began to flow into the other Masses at the parish. The reductio ad absurdum was the phenomenon known at Life Teen, at which garage bands were encouraged to unleash their talents and celebrants were encouraged to use any and every method to entertain people rather than draw people's attention toward the transcendent. One must also observe that previous World Youth Days—with their exhibitions of pop stars and over-the-top displays of emotional unleashings—have not been a help in this regard.
Well, there is a slight problem with hinging an entire liturgical project around a dogmatic demographic claim. Time moves forward. The present is infinitely vanishing, as Kierkegaard said. Demographics change. The youth get old, and the vanguard of the movement eventually gets trampled by the sheer passage of time. Thus do we observe the absurdity of obviously aging old-timers attached to styles and approaches that are as dated as shag carpet and big-bell jeans telling the actual youth of today what they should and shouldn't desire in liturgy. It comes across like 1970s kitsch, the stuff of low-budget comedy films about a time that today's real youth only know in caricature.
Well, that was then and this is now. Observe the Masses at World Youth Day in Australia. The trappings of the "youth Mass" of yesteryear were gone, replaced by a new solemnity that included Gregorian chant, traditional vestments, beautiful altar arrangements, attention to the rubrics, and so much more. Far from being an example of what not to do, these Masses were, in many ways, models that today's truly progressive parishes would do well to follow.
What were the youth doing during the event? Many of the most active were involved in Gregorian chant scholas, either with the main event or side projects such as the group Juventutem, which has a special attachment to the extraordinary form of the Roman Rite. The group brought in chant master Scott Turkington to train the new generation, which sang Mass ordinaries and hymns from the Parish Book of Chant published by the Church Music Association of America. They sang propers from the Liber Usualis, a book with a grand tradition that was being tossed out in the 1960s and 1970s but which is now experiencing a glorious resurgence.
But even in the ordinary form Masses celebrated during the main events, we heard Gregorian introits and communion antiphons. Here we see what was even a step forward from the best of the U.S. Papal Masses, which provided only selected seasonal communion antiphons in chant. It seems like the Vatican advance team, led by Papal MC Guido Marini, is getting ever more vigilant in encouraging a recovery of traditional practices and liturgical ideals. They have not been 100% successful (the final Mass in Australia included a few highly unfortunate moments), but they learn to be less naïve as time goes on. As Fr. Zulsdorf frequently says, progress in this area takes place brick by brick.
An example of an important step that represents an ongoing transition is the Benediction altar arrangement that we see in Papal Masses. The altar is not the high altar of the extaordinary form. It is the altar of the ordinary form, but with an important difference. The candle sticks are on the altar itself and there is a crucifix in front of the celebrant so that he can truly be turned toward the Lord rather than the people as if they are some kind of audience for his actions. The altar arrangement carries with it the important symbol that the purpose of liturgy is directed toward eternal things, glorifying God rather than the tastes of the congregation. This arrangement of course is not the final ideal but it is a step forward toward the historic Roman Rite practice of saying the Mass oriented toward the liturgical East, together with the people in procession toward the risen Lord. If the goal is to unseat the cult of personality and to get away from these entertainment-focused liturgical events, no step is more important.
As for the entrance and communion propers in chant, this is music that is deeply embedded as part of the Roman Rite. It is the music that is heard in its normative form, and the Popes have long taught that any music that substitutes for chant must in some sense grow out of its style and approach and unmistakable holiness. This realization is not a burden but a relief for musicians who struggle week to week to program music as part of Mass, using every manner of liturgical guide. When they turn to the very music of the Roman Rite, they are truly singing the Mass as it has been given to us by tradition. This is a musical form of liberation for musicians and for people of all ages. Newly discovering this truth is a new generation of young people who find in its both artistic challenge and profound spiritual energy.
Meanwhile, there is the persistent problem that many parishes that some Sunday Mass has been set aside as the Mass designed to appeal to the youth. Ironically, it is precisely these Masses that are most open to reform in the direction the Benedict XVI is calling for—much more so that the main Sunday Mass. These are the Masses where a dignified ordinary setting can be used, either in Latin or English. The new schola can sing propers, again in either Latin or English. They should be encouraged to sing all music without instruments, as a way of clearing the air, encouraging participation, and emphasizing a core truth that the primary liturgical instrument is not the guitar or piano or even organ but the human voice itself. The celebrant can do his part by singing the parts of the Mass that belong to him. The Mass can be said ad orientem and use incense and bells, all of which today's youth find intriguing precisely because these symbols of holiness are not available in the secular world. Here we have the basis of a new Youth Mass, and perhaps the approach of this Mass will have a meritorious influence on the other Masses of the parish.
The goal of such a reform is not to appeal to a certain demographic but to use an opportunity presented by the existence of such Mass times to institute a new pattern of liturgical use that defers to the tradition and puts a premium on the idea of sacred space. What we find in such spaces is something completely unlike what the rest of the world offers: actions designed to reach outside the passage of time and into eternity. Here we should find a form of beauty for which the world itself offers no parallel. To attend Mass and be part of this mystical action is a privilege of the highest order. It can be offered to today's youth so that they can be part of something much larger and infinitely greater than their own times and their own generation.
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- Joe
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| | Topic: Rome approves new English text for Missal ordinary |
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| | Topic: Interesting Sounding New Book |
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| Interesting Sounding New Book |
Sun, 13 July 2008 08:20 |
M Anon
Messages: 1251
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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This is a review by Alcuin Reid of a new book by a philosoper (who, I presume, is old enough to have experienced "pre-VCII" liturgies. I don't know from this whether his "post-Vatican II liturgical" experiences tend to be of the Rite of Blessed John XXII or the Rite of Paul VI.) [all emphasis mine]
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/reviews/r0000319.shtml
Divine worship and the rise of ‘feel-good liturgy’
Worship as a Revelation: The Past, Present and Future of Catholic Liturgy by Laurence Paul Hemming, Burns & Oates £14.99
We talk too much. We read too much. We hear too much. So much so, that we have lost the art of doing, of acting either as individuals or as a people. We no longer understand what it is to belong to a people who acts, who has "public action" of its own. We are no longer liturgical. For in our vernacularism and modernisation and reform, the very nature of the leiturgia - the nature of what is truly the work of the people - has been lost.
Today we seek to comprehend and explain and decide what we do in our churches but it is utterly questionable as to whether our people experience the liturgical revelation of Almighty God.
In fact, let's drop the adjective "liturgical" and use Hemming's words which assert that the liturgy is nothing less than "the ordinary and continual revealing of [God's] truth". If this is so, it cannot be a forum for our own self-expression. It cannot necessarily be within our immediate comprehension or subject to our didactic commentary. It must be experienced, indeed lived, as worship of Almighty God - as opposed to being "enjoyed" as a form of Christian activism - in order to begin to grasp something of what is being communicated in it: the very life of God Himself.
This raises the question not only of what liturgical practices are appropriate but, more fundamentally, of the place of the liturgy in Catholic theology.
Why has Hemming, essentially a philosopher, concerned himself with this question? The answer is simple. This is not an erudite academic discourse. Nor is it an ecclesio-political one. It is the fruit of the author's experience of Catholic worship. It is also testament to his experience that most attempts to facilitate such connection in recent decades - from guitars to garrulous clergy - while they may have resulted in our happily holding hands with each other, have in part (at least) led us to forget about the worship of Almighty God.
And while modern liturgical forms might have led us to "feel good", it is the former that most clearly and fruitfully reveals the Triune God who has definitively revealed himself in our history, and who thereby makes demands upon us by way of both orthopraxy and orthodoxy. Hemming - as a worshipping Catholic - knows this. As a philosopher and a theologian he has investigated its import for us today. Hence Worship as a Revelation.
This book's philosophical and theological sophistication will challenge theologians and liturgists to re-examine their assumptions about how they perceive the relationship between theology and liturgy. For if worship is indeed the revelation of Almighty God, its centrality and indeed its priority in theological endeavour cannot be denied. The Sacred Liturgy can no longer be one component of theology; it must be its foundation, for theology that is not grounded in the living revelation of God rapidly degenerates into the mere study of religion.
Hemming's evaluation of the liturgical reforms over the past century are provocative. Very few will have located the genesis of the late 20th-century liturgical crisis in the reign of the good and sainted Pope Pius X, but Hemming's argument for precisely this is compelling.
The author wisely refrains from proposing simplistic solutions but allows us to see the anomalies of liturgical reform in the 20th century for what they are - a dangerous tampering with the continuity of God's revelation. Few "trained liturgists" have been prepared to enter into serious debate on this question. It is to be hoped that this book might bring them forth.
For Hemming's rich and clear liturgical theology is starkly distinct from that prevailing in the western Catholic Church because it is not based on the desire for archaeological reconstruction of a "dreamtime" primitive liturgical purity, nor indeed for a modern ideological construction of something tailor-made for "modern man".
Hemming is no ideologue, nor is he an antiquarian. Catholic worship is indeed a revelation. It is a live epiphany. It is tangible theology. It is the very heart - indeed the "source and summit" - of our faith. That, of course, is why we tamper with the liturgy at our peril. That is why Pope Benedict XVI has placed the reform of the Sacred Liturgy so high on the agenda of this pontificate. And that is why this book will provoke the liturgical establishment, for Hemming does not accept that the apotheosis of all Christian liturgy may be found in the forms produced following the Second Vatican Council, or indeed in the manner in which these forms have been celebrated in the subsequent years.
The role of Sacred Scripture in the life of the Church is another area in which his liturgical theology makes serious and important claims. In short, he points out - and at last someone has had the courage and clarity to do this - that "the liturgy is the proper ground of Scripture (and not the other way round, ie the false view that the liturgy derives from Scripture)," or, put more simply, in the modern understanding of the relationship between the liturgy and scripture, "scripture has lost its ground".
This claim to priority on behalf of the liturgy over the biblical text will certainly provoke debate. But, once again, if Worship as a Revelation becomes a catalyst for the re-examination of what a Catholic understanding of the role of Sacred Scripture is, it shall have done very well indeed.
This then is a book that must be read and studied and read again by theologians, scripture scholars, liturgists, all seminary faculty and indeed by all liturgical practitioners.
It will challenge and it will inform. The pontificate of Pope Benedict continues to remind us that "the true celebration of the Sacred Liturgy is the centre of any renewal of the Church whatever". Hemming has rendered the Church a fine service by pointing us along the path toward a true understanding of the liturgy, a path that cannot but inform our celebration of it.
[Updated on: Sun, 13 July 2008 08:22]
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| | Forum: Liturgical Renewal and the Reforms of Vatican II |
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| Topic: Papal resignation/Conclave |
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| Papal resignation/Conclave |
Mon, 25 February 2013 12:48 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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What are your thoughts regarding the historical resignation of Pope Benedict?
What are you hoping for in the next papacy? Who might fulfill those hopes?
Lets hear from former and new posters. Let's break the silence and discuss.
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| | Topic: 10 Ways Catholic Life is Better |
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| | Topic: Vatican II 50 years |
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| Vatican II 50 years |
Sun, 19 February 2012 05:20 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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Here's a look back at The Council as it was happening day to day. Thanks to Deacon Eric Stotlz.
http://conciliaria.com/
We believed the Spirit was leading us back then. There was much hope that the institutional church was changing. We began to see ourselves as "church". A door was opened wide. I want to believe too wide to close, but lately I wonder about that. Do you?
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| | Topic: Priest forced to resign for praying |
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| | Topic: JUDY BEAUMONT'S ORDINATION January 21, 2012 |
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| JUDY BEAUMONT'S ORDINATION January 21, 2012 |
Tue, 24 January 2012 06:59 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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More than 200 attended her ordination. She was warned of excommunication.
"..."But Beaumont said she rejects any excommunication."I will still consider myself a faithful Catholic," she said. "We are not leaving the church. We are creating a new model of the church."Beaumont replied to Dewane in a late-December letter."I understand that you are fulfilling your obligation as Bishop and I take your words seriously," she wrote. "However, I must reply that as I have tried throughout my life to answer the call of the Gospel to serve God's people, I must again answer this new call to sacramental ministry with the poor and otherwise marginalized people in our midst."
"Bishop Bridget Mary Meehan, who will preside over Beaumont's ordination, says she considers several letters of excommunication she received following her own ordination "as badges of honor.""The church has a habit of excommunicating holy women and men, such as burning Joan of Arc at the stake," she said. "Pope Benedict himself has canonized two previously ex-communicated nuns -- Mother Theodore Guerin and Mary MacKillop -- making excommunication a new fast-track to canonization. Meehan said she has the apostolic succession required by the Roman Catholic Church to ordain Beaumont as a priest because she herself was ordained by Bishop Patricia Fresen in 2009, who was ordained by a male bishop in communion with the Pope."Social justice, a love of the Church, the Church liturgy, and the holy people of the Church," Beaumont said. "Those were the values instilled in me as a child."
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| | Topic: Christmas cookies... |
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| | Topic: New Translation...first week |
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| New Translation...first week |
Sun, 27 November 2011 06:10 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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How was it at your parish?
I heard lots of stumbling even with heads buried in pew cards and missalettes. I know that part will get better with time.
I thought our elderly presider did quite well with the prayers but I could tell he was nervous.
I'm still not a fan of this "sacred vernacular". I never will be. However, it won't force me from the Table.
After mass I heard more negative comments than positive but not a whole lot of talk about the new translation. The people were more interested in getting their tag off the Giving Tree...that's a good thing and the right Christian attitude.
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| | Topic: Saying Goodby to the Sacramentary |
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| | Topic: Thread at Pray Tell not getting enough attention |
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| | Topic: Reform of the Reform slowly dying |
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| | Topic: Communion from the Cup in Phoenix |
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| Communion from the Cup in Phoenix |
Sat, 08 October 2011 06:07 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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It's been awfully quiet here on the boards lately. I post topics from time to time that are interesting to me. Anyone else got anything? Newcomers welcomed!
Thist article written by Rita Ferrone at Commonweal is well written, interesting and informative....to me anyway. It's about Bishop Olmsted's decision to withdraw permission for communion from the Cup on most Sundays in the Phoenix diocese.
http://www.commonwealmagazine.org/blog/?p=15435
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| | Topic: Steve Jobs |
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| Steve Jobs |
Thu, 06 October 2011 05:18 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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Rest in Peace....a man who whose life has impacted millions of lives. His God given gifts made this world a smaller world and made it easier to communicate with one another. He helped make our lives,our jobs,our ministries so much easier.
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| | Topic: Hans Kung interview |
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| | Topic: Wise words about dissent |
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| Wise words about dissent |
Fri, 23 September 2011 06:45 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/can-we-talk
Robert McClory NCR:
I have this idea of a debate on dissent in the church, or better, a series of debates between qualified representatives from left and right -- no grandstanding, no polarizing, no gotcha questions, no yelling.
Undoubtedly, the result would not lead to mass conversions from either camp, but it just might lower the decibel level, even set a tone of respect we haven't seen in a long time.
Somehow, we've got to get out of this quagmire that has turned Catholicism into the quintessential dysfunctional family of the 21st century.
I have been trying to figure out a way of doing Something like this there on these boards.
Anyone?Any ideas?
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| | Topic: The Common Good |
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| The Common Good |
Sat, 03 September 2011 05:30 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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http://ncronline.org/news/justice/tough-times-remember-value s-commons
I'm reminded that the Second Vatican Council insisted, the 'grief and anguish' of the people of our time, "especially of those who are poor or afflicted in any way . . . are the grief and anguish of the followers of Christ as well" (Gaudium et Spes, no. 1).
What are your thoughts this Labor Day 2011 in this continuing economic turmoil?
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| | Topic: New mass at St. Paul Cathedral, PittsburghPA |
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| New mass at St. Paul Cathedral, PittsburghPA |
Wed, 31 August 2011 20:49 |
exmonk2004
Messages: 120
Registered: April 2004
Location: Pittsburgh PA |
Senior Member |
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With regard to the new missal translations, several colleagues have asked me to let them know what we decide to use at the cathedral. Beginning in October we will sing:
Gloria Antiphonal Mass - John Lee
Holy, Holy, Holy - Community Mass R. Proulx
Memorial Acclamation - Community Mass R. Proulx
Amen - Community Mass R. Proulx
is is from the Cathedral Organist
Donald Fellows.
Personally I am thinking of the Belmont Mass (walker)
it is chant-like with a bit more of a melody...and
I think easy to learn....
still not sure what to do at this moment
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| | Topic: Hermeneutics as Weapon |
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| Hermeneutics as Weapon |
Sun, 28 August 2011 06:49 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/hermeneutics-weapon
"Indeed, Vatican II did teach a new language, and most Catholics welcomed it. But it has little resemblance to the language Morlino wants us to learn. In his book, What Happened at Vatican II, historian John O'Malley vividly contrasts the pre-Vatican II emphasis on church teaching with the new emphasis the council had introduced. The shift, he said, was "from commands to invitation, from laws to ideals, from definition to mystery, from threats to persuasion, from coercion to conscience, from monologue to dialogue, from ruling to serving, from withdrawn to integrated, from vertical to horizontal, from exclusion to inclusion, from hostility to friendship, from rivalry to partnership, from suspicion to trust ...from fault finding to appreciation ...from behavior modification to inner appropriation."
Turn that paragraph around, and you will see the direction in which the church as institution is being moved today: from invitations to commands, from persuasion to threats, from conscience to coercion, from trust to suspicion, from inclusion to exclusion, etc. etc.
New developments ranging from the excommunication of anyone assisting at a woman's ordination, to the forced resignation of a bishop who even speaks about the subject, to the exclusion of girl servers in some parishes or dioceses, to a surprise assault by a bishops' doctrine committee on the book of an eminent theologian, to the suggestion by the executive director of that committee that some theologians today are "a curse and affliction upon the church" -- these are the direct results we can expect from an exaggerated, extremist misuse of a "hermeneutics of continuity" to quash all discussion."
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| | Topic: Hurricane Irene |
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| | Topic: Boston Archdiocese list of accused clergy |
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| | Topic: possible agreement with SSPX? |
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| | Topic: Assumption of the BVM |
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| Assumption of the BVM |
Mon, 15 August 2011 12:08 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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On August 15, the church celebrates The Assumption of Mary into Heaven. Joan Chittister writes of this feast, "Mary of the Assumption teaches us to develop a vision outside of ourselves; to allow ourselves to be lifted up beyond the petty and the transient to the eternal and the unalloyed."
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| | Topic: Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children... |
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| Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children... |
Fri, 05 August 2011 08:00 |
PhiMuAlpha2681
Messages: 714
Registered: November 2004
Location: Camp Hill, PA |
Senior Member |
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Cover story in the new USCCB BCDW July newsletter, which just arrived in my inbox.
Quote:CDWDS Grants Reprint of Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children and Collection of Masses of the Blessed Virgin Mary
On July 19, 2011, Archbishop Timothy Dolan, USCCB President, received from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments a response to an inquiry regarding the use of the Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children and the Collection of Masses of the Blessed Virgin Mary once the Roman Missal, Third Edition, is introduced this Advent. This question was originally proposed by Cardinal Francis George, O.M.I., during his visit to the Congregation last year in his capacity as then-USCCB President. In the response (Prot. n. 692/11/L), Archbishop J. Augustine Di Noia, OP, Secretary of the Congregation, states:
Quote:Having now attentively studied the matter, this Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has concluded that nothing stands in the way of the continued use of these texts and, for that purpose, to be reprinted, in accord with the norm of liturgical law, until such time as revised translations of these texts have been approved by the Bishops and have received the recognitio of this Dicastery.
In communicating this decision, the Congregation noted that the updated words of institution should be used in the Eucharistic Prayers, and that the people's responses and acclamations should be updated to reflect the text of the Roman Missal, Third Edition. In the Collection of Masses of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the new text of the Order of Mass should be inserted, and the concluding formulae of the orations should be updated to reflect the newer text.
The Secretariat of Divine Worship will begin work immediately to prepare the necessary adjustments to the texts and see to their publication as soon as possible. The text of the Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children will be published by USCCB Communications as a supplement to the Roman Missal, Third Edition (similar to the current supplemental text of the Eucharistic Prayers for Various Needs and Occasions), and it should be available in time for the implementation of the Missal this Advent. The text of the Directory for Masses with Children is planned as an introductory text for this supplement. The Congregation suggested that it would be helpful to remind pastors of the regulations regarding the use of the Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children, a topic which will be addressed in the next issue of the Newsletter.
The Collection of Masses of the Blessed Virgin Mary was originally published by both Catholic Book Publishing Company and Liturgical Press. The Secretariat is in contact with both publishers to work toward the release of updated editions.
An artist can be truly evaluated only after he is dead. At the very 11th hour, he might do something that will eclipse everything else.
-- Van Cliburn
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| | Topic: Catholics Come Home |
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| Catholics Come Home |
Sat, 30 July 2011 08:31 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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I have posted about this program before.
http://www.catholicscomehome.org/index.php
They claim thousands of Catholics are returning as a result. Really?!
There was a report in Boston not long ago that only 17% of Catholics were coming to Sunday Eucharist. That's just horrible! ! How can they say CCH is working?
Personally I don't see that Catholics will return unless the Church addresses the issues that are keeping people away.
Feel free to add to my list of why Catholics leave and are not returning. There is no order of importance.
The abuse and coverup by bishops has alienated thousands. People here (especially non practicing Catholics) still talk about Cardinal Law and how he was given a pretty nice appointment in Rome after being run out of Boston.
Women are not given equality in church ministry.
Forbidding the many divorced and remarried good Catholics to come to communion.
Pointing to certain political views and barring people with these views from communion.
Telling couples that contraception or IVF is wrong. Teaching about morality and sexual issues may be important but the Church is preoccupied with these issues. Put more importance on teaching the Gospel!
Abortion Is wrong but the Church's way of trying criminalize it is not working and attracts too many fanatics. There should be a new way of approaching the issue.
Roman power politics is keeping many away and here comes the controversial new translation being forced on us.
Stop being anti gay. Telling homosexuals that they live disordered and sinful lives is slamming church doors in their faces. Same sex civil unions are not hurting my marriage or family life...how about you? Take the energy put into protesting state laws and put it into better diocese and parish marriage prep and ongoing support programs.
I'm sure I've left some thing off. The above in my opinion are issues driving people away that CCH will not succeed at bringing home.
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| | Topic: Chaput for Philadelphia |
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| | Topic: New Roman Missal..It Doesn't Sing |
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| New Roman Missal..It Doesn't Sing |
Sat, 02 July 2011 07:20 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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I could not get the actual link to this article to work..
Go here:
http://commonwealmagazine.org/
then
find "Most read stories on the site"
Click.."It Doesn't Sing" Rita Ferrone
"Where is this new translation taking us? It is important to realize that negative responses to the new translation reflect both dismay at the wording of the text and disagreement with the principles that guided its production. Yet the conflict goes deeper than an argument over theories of translation. That the new translation of the Roman Missal should come to us replete with embarrassing gaffes, nonsensical passages, and a near-total lack of accountability is as clearly a symptom of the misuse of authority as it is the fault of the questionable set of translation principles enunciated in Liturgiam authenticam. Yet even the misuse of authority is not the root cause of the immense disquiet and even outrage that this translation has aroused."
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| | Topic: Ordination ban not infallibly taught |
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| | Topic: Bishops at center of abuse scandal, and potential reform |
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| | Topic: Infallibility is all in the mind |
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| | Topic: Pope John XXIII Santos subito! |
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| | Topic: Colbert hung over from Lent |
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| | Topic: concern over divisions within the Church |
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| concern over divisions within the Church |
Sat, 23 April 2011 12:27 |
Anne
Messages: 3816
Registered: April 2004 |
Senior Member |
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Robert Mickens writes a column in The Tablet called "Letter from Rome". I'm not a subscriber so I can't post a link. Pray Tell posted this much. It includes concern over the undermining of Vatican II from Father Enzo Bianchi:
There's no denying it. Many people involved in the Church admit they are tired out, or in any case without hope." Thus begins a disturbing article in the latest issue of the Italian monthly Jesus. The author is Enzo Bianchi, prior of the Monastery of Bose near Turin. For decades he has been one of the best-selling spiritual authors in Italy and a nationally recognized symbol of mainstream Catholicism. His recent article should make Catholics everywhere stop and think.
"This is not an easy moment for the Church, because the Church itself is lacerated and divided," writes Bianchi. He says this is partly because various groups of Catholics are at odds over how to respond to the changing "cultural climate". "But I believe we must recognise that there are also aspects of the inner life of the Church that are helping to making us weary. Many Catholics are working against Vatican II by criticising it and distancing themselves from it; by working against ecumenism and the liturgical reform."
Those Catholics who "struggled to change" nearly 50 years ago, and obediently followed "the directives of the Council and the Pope", are now filled with "confusion" and even "frustration" by this suspicious attitude towards Vatican II. And he says he is personally tired of opposing church factions waging their "wars" through blogs.
"I am nearly 70. I have worked my entire life for church unity and communion within my Church, but today I see many contradictions," writes Bianchi. "And I ask with many others: where is the Church heading? This, our Church, that we have loved so much, and want to continue to love, as members that are loyal not ones who are adulterous or who are looking for privileges and promotions."
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