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On the other hand....

Posted by Randy( the heretic) on March 04, 2004 at 08:37:00:

This article, though long, seems to give a different picture to the present problems...I know Greeley isn't everyone's favorite, but his work is sincere and intense.

Op-Ed Contributor: For Priests, Celibacy Is Not the Problem
>
>March 3, 2004
> By ANDREW GREELEY
>
>
>The logic of the argument is simple: 4 percent of Roman
>Catholic priests have been sexual abusers. Priests are
>committed to celibacy. Therefore, the frustrations of the
>celibate life led to the abuse. Therefore, celibacy should
>be abolished.
>
>While perhaps not quite so starkly stated, this is the line
>of thinking that has been used by many to explain the
>sexual abuse scandals shaking the church. It will also
>shape the response to two reports issued by the United
>States Conference of Catholic Bishops last week. Leave
>aside for a moment the fact that 96 percent of priests are
>not abusers - is this portrayal of widespread frustration
>an accurate description of American priests?
>
>The picture presented by the two reports - one a
>statistical study by researchers at John Jay College of the
>abuse cases and the church's reactions to them, the other a
>report on the causes and context of the crisis by a review
>board appointed by the bishops - is horrific and tragic.
>But as a priest and as someone who has been writing about
>the evil of sexual abuse by priests for two decades, I must
>also point to a substantial body of data collected over the
>last 35 years that presents another story, one which ought
>to be heard. These surveys of attitudes among priests and
>parishioners have shown that most don't consider celibacy
>the problem with the priesthood; the problem is that many
>priests don't do their job well.
>
>Over the last 30 years, The Los Angeles Times and the
>National Opinion Research Center at the University of
>Chicago have each made repeated and comprehensive studies
>of attitudes among the priesthood and the laity. The polls
>have consistently shown that a vast majority of priests say
>that life in the priesthood is better than they expected it
>would be.
>
>For instance, the most recent Los Angeles Times study,
>completed in 2002, found that 93 percent of the more than
>1,800 priests surveyed said that they would become priests
>if they had to choose their careers again. Only 2 percent
>said that they would probably leave the priesthood. In
>general, priests are more likely to affirm that they are
>happy in their lives and satisfied with their work than are
>doctors, lawyers, teachers, professors and even married
>Protestant clergy. Priests, on average, seem to be about
>the happiest men in the country. Abusers, it seems clear,
>aren't being driven to crime by celibacy but by their own
>demons.
>
>On measures of personality traits by the National Opinion
>Research Center - including the capacity for intimacy -
>priests compare favorably with married laymen of similar
>educational backgrounds. Despite the call by a few priests
>for abolishing the celibacy rule, there is no evidence that
>priests are more likely to be frustrated, unhappy misfits
>than are married laymen. Priests like being priests; they
>like doing the work that priests do; and they recognize
>that celibacy is part and parcel of that work. Like all
>humans, however, we are far less then perfect: we must
>offer sacrifice for our own sins as well as the sins of our
>people, as the Epistle to the Hebrews observes.
>
>So where does today's negative picture of priests come
>from? In part, it's a relic of the anti-Catholic,
>anti-celibacy sentiment of 19th century nativism. In
>addition, priests themselves tend to be silent when their
>vocation is attacked, either by men who have left the
>priesthood or by the public over the crimes of the abusers.
>Indeed, their response to the latter is pathetic: my
>colleagues tend to feel sorry for themselves, to blame the
>news media, to assert that it is the bishops' problem, and
>to argue that it is not the most serious crisis facing the
>church.
>
>Denial, research shows, is a major factor in clerical
>culture - the dark side of the priesthood. Just as teachers
>stereotype their students and doctors their patients,
>priests stereotype their parishioners. In response to an
>open-ended question in the 2002 Los Angeles Times survey
>about why the laity was growing disaffected with the
>church, 13 percent of priests said parishioners were
>suffering from moral decline, 10 percent cited loss of
>faith, 7 percent secularism, 5 percent apathy, 5 percent
>materialism, 4 percent lack of responsibility and 4 percent
>lack of "personal leadership."
>
>Only 13 percent saw problems arising from failures of the
>clergy - sexual abuse, decline of confidence in leadership,
>poor sermons and liturgy, and clerical authoritarianism.
>Only 19 of the more than 1,800 thought that poor sermons
>were a problem. The mindset is clear: if the laity have
>religious problems, the fault is either their own or
>cultural trends over which priests have no control.
>
>When asked in the survey why congregants leave the church,
>a quarter of priests (and only 16 percent of the younger
>clergymen) accepted some personal responsibility -
>insensitivity, inadequate leadership, poor sermons and
>liturgy, and the sexual abuse scandal. The rest cited the
>usual litany of horrors: individualism, secularism, no
>faith, poor prayer life, no commitment, media bias,
>hedonism, sex, feminism, family breakdown and apathy. In
>essence, three-quarters of the priests surveyed washed
>their hands of responsibility for Catholics who leave the
>church and excused themselves from an obligation to
>respond.
>
>On the other side of the steel door that seems to separate
>priests from parishioners, the laity give their clergy, on
>the average, scores only about half as high as what
>Protestants give their ministers on preaching, liturgy,
>sympathetic counseling, respect for women and work with
>young people. In the 1950's, according to a study by Ben
>Gaffin Associates, 40 percent of Americans (Protestants and
>Catholics alike) rated the sermons they heard as
>"excellent." In 2002, according to the National Opinion
>Research Study, 36 percent of Protestants still found their
>sermons excellent, compared to just 18 percent of
>Catholics.
>
>In addition to the abuse cases, the big problems in the
>priesthood, then, are not celibacy or sexual frustration,
>but the constraints on excellence in an envy-ridden, rigid
>and mediocre clerical culture that does a poor job in
>serving church members.
>
>If priests really want to improve their image, they should
>not bother to write letters demanding that celibacy be made
>optional - which will be dismissed by their bishops and the
>Vatican - but to make every effort to upgrade their work -
>especially their sermons.
>
>These are hard times for priests. They are under attack as
>perverts. More people are making more demands on fewer
>priests. Yet, in parishes where the pastor is reasonably
>open and reasonably secure, the lay response is
>enthusiastic commitment and dedication.
>
>People ask me what kind of a priest I am - meaning Jesuit,
>Dominican or Franciscan (Jesuit being the answer most want
>to hear). I usually respond, "Not a very good one, but I
>try." Now, in the wake of these new reports, we must all
>try harder.
>
>Andrew Greeley is the author of "Priests: A Calling in
>Crisis" and the forthcoming novel "The Priestly Sins."
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/03/opinion/03GREE.html?ex=1079327131&ei=1&en=d7c7bb03a11ed7bb

Replies:

Re: On the other hand.... Donna 06:21:18 3/07/04 (25)
- well said... Randy ( the heretic) 13:38:49 3/07/04 (24)
  - Re: well said... Donna 05:32:40 3/08/04 (23)
    - Re: well said... Mark S. 10:58:15 3/08/04 (2)
      - Re: well said... Gabby 18:27:09 3/14/04 (0)
      - Re: well said... Donna 12:54:11 3/08/04 (0)
    - Re: well said... Mike J. 07:45:06 3/08/04 (19)
      - Re: well said... Donna 09:40:50 3/08/04 (18)
        
        Re: well said... Mike J. 21:08:32 3/08/04 (17)
        
        Re: well said... Donna 08:40:29 3/09/04 (16)
        
        Re: well said... Mike J. 18:35:34 3/09/04 (15)
        
        Re: well said... Gabby 18:36:06 3/14/04 (0)
        
        Re: well said... Paedophilia has NOTHING to do with homosexuality. 20:50:05 3/13/04 (5)
        
        Re: well said... Donna 11:10:42 3/14/04 (4)
        
        Re: well said... Agreed. 15:19:45 3/14/04 (3)
        
        Thank you...Re: well said... Randy (the heretic) 08:18:42 3/17/04 (1)
        
        Re: Thank you...Re: well said... I had to be. 13:54:28 3/17/04 (0)
        
        Re: well said... Donna 21:52:10 3/14/04 (0)
        
        Re: well said... Donna 05:48:48 3/10/04 (7)
        
        Re: well said... Mike J. 18:28:47 3/10/04 (6)
        
        Re: well said... Donna 21:31:47 3/10/04 (5)
        
        Re: well said... Mike J. 00:02:23 3/11/04 (4)
        
        Mikey, consider this test Wag 14:43:58 3/13/04 (0)
        
        Re: well said... Donna 08:08:00 3/11/04 (2)
        
        Re: well said... Mike J. 18:29:31 3/11/04 (1)
        
        Re: well said... Donna 20:27:40 3/11/04 (0)
Re: On the other hand.... Mark S. 09:45:18 3/04/04 (1)
- Re: On the other hand.... Randy( the heretic) 10:50:38 3/04/04 (0)

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Comments:
: This article, though long, seems to give a different picture to the present problems...I know Greeley isn't everyone's favorite, but his work is sincere and intense. : Op-Ed Contributor: For Priests, Celibacy Is Not the Problem : > : >March 3, 2004 : > By ANDREW GREELEY : > : > : >The logic of the argument is simple: 4 percent of Roman : >Catholic priests have been sexual abusers. Priests are : >committed to celibacy. Therefore, the frustrations of the : >celibate life led to the abuse. Therefore, celibacy should : >be abolished. : > : >While perhaps not quite so starkly stated, this is the line : >of thinking that has been used by many to explain the : >sexual abuse scandals shaking the church. It will also : >shape the response to two reports issued by the United : >States Conference of Catholic Bishops last week. Leave : >aside for a moment the fact that 96 percent of priests are : >not abusers - is this portrayal of widespread frustration : >an accurate description of American priests? : > : >The picture presented by the two reports - one a : >statistical study by researchers at John Jay College of the : >abuse cases and the church's reactions to them, the other a : >report on the causes and context of the crisis by a review : >board appointed by the bishops - is horrific and tragic. : >But as a priest and as someone who has been writing about : >the evil of sexual abuse by priests for two decades, I must : >also point to a substantial body of data collected over the : >last 35 years that presents another story, one which ought : >to be heard. These surveys of attitudes among priests and : >parishioners have shown that most don't consider celibacy : >the problem with the priesthood; the problem is that many : >priests don't do their job well. : > : >Over the last 30 years, The Los Angeles Times and the : >National Opinion Research Center at the University of : >Chicago have each made repeated and comprehensive studies : >of attitudes among the priesthood and the laity. The polls : >have consistently shown that a vast majority of priests say : >that life in the priesthood is better than they expected it : >would be. : > : >For instance, the most recent Los Angeles Times study, : >completed in 2002, found that 93 percent of the more than : >1,800 priests surveyed said that they would become priests : >if they had to choose their careers again. Only 2 percent : >said that they would probably leave the priesthood. In : >general, priests are more likely to affirm that they are : >happy in their lives and satisfied with their work than are : >doctors, lawyers, teachers, professors and even married : >Protestant clergy. Priests, on average, seem to be about : >the happiest men in the country. Abusers, it seems clear, : >aren't being driven to crime by celibacy but by their own : >demons. : > : >On measures of personality traits by the National Opinion : >Research Center - including the capacity for intimacy - : >priests compare favorably with married laymen of similar : >educational backgrounds. Despite the call by a few priests : >for abolishing the celibacy rule, there is no evidence that : >priests are more likely to be frustrated, unhappy misfits : >than are married laymen. Priests like being priests; they : >like doing the work that priests do; and they recognize : >that celibacy is part and parcel of that work. Like all : >humans, however, we are far less then perfect: we must : >offer sacrifice for our own sins as well as the sins of our : >people, as the Epistle to the Hebrews observes. : > : >So where does today's negative picture of priests come : >from? In part, it's a relic of the anti-Catholic, : >anti-celibacy sentiment of 19th century nativism. In : >addition, priests themselves tend to be silent when their : >vocation is attacked, either by men who have left the : >priesthood or by the public over the crimes of the abusers. : >Indeed, their response to the latter is pathetic: my : >colleagues tend to feel sorry for themselves, to blame the : >news media, to assert that it is the bishops' problem, and : >to argue that it is not the most serious crisis facing the : >church. : > : >Denial, research shows, is a major factor in clerical : >culture - the dark side of the priesthood. Just as teachers : >stereotype their students and doctors their patients, : >priests stereotype their parishioners. In response to an : >open-ended question in the 2002 Los Angeles Times survey : >about why the laity was growing disaffected with the : >church, 13 percent of priests said parishioners were : >suffering from moral decline, 10 percent cited loss of : >faith, 7 percent secularism, 5 percent apathy, 5 percent : >materialism, 4 percent lack of responsibility and 4 percent : >lack of "personal leadership." : > : >Only 13 percent saw problems arising from failures of the : >clergy - sexual abuse, decline of confidence in leadership, : >poor sermons and liturgy, and clerical authoritarianism. : >Only 19 of the more than 1,800 thought that poor sermons : >were a problem. The mindset is clear: if the laity have : >religious problems, the fault is either their own or : >cultural trends over which priests have no control. : > : >When asked in the survey why congregants leave the church, : >a quarter of priests (and only 16 percent of the younger : >clergymen) accepted some personal responsibility - : >insensitivity, inadequate leadership, poor sermons and : >liturgy, and the sexual abuse scandal. The rest cited the : >usual litany of horrors: individualism, secularism, no : >faith, poor prayer life, no commitment, media bias, : >hedonism, sex, feminism, family breakdown and apathy. In : >essence, three-quarters of the priests surveyed washed : >their hands of responsibility for Catholics who leave the : >church and excused themselves from an obligation to : >respond. : > : >On the other side of the steel door that seems to separate : >priests from parishioners, the laity give their clergy, on : >the average, scores only about half as high as what : >Protestants give their ministers on preaching, liturgy, : >sympathetic counseling, respect for women and work with : >young people. In the 1950's, according to a study by Ben : >Gaffin Associates, 40 percent of Americans (Protestants and : >Catholics alike) rated the sermons they heard as : >"excellent." In 2002, according to the National Opinion : >Research Study, 36 percent of Protestants still found their : >sermons excellent, compared to just 18 percent of : >Catholics. : > : >In addition to the abuse cases, the big problems in the : >priesthood, then, are not celibacy or sexual frustration, : >but the constraints on excellence in an envy-ridden, rigid : >and mediocre clerical culture that does a poor job in : >serving church members. : > : >If priests really want to improve their image, they should : >not bother to write letters demanding that celibacy be made : >optional - which will be dismissed by their bishops and the : >Vatican - but to make every effort to upgrade their work - : >especially their sermons. : > : >These are hard times for priests. They are under attack as : >perverts. More people are making more demands on fewer : >priests. Yet, in parishes where the pastor is reasonably : >open and reasonably secure, the lay response is : >enthusiastic commitment and dedication. : > : >People ask me what kind of a priest I am - meaning Jesuit, : >Dominican or Franciscan (Jesuit being the answer most want : >to hear). I usually respond, "Not a very good one, but I : >try." Now, in the wake of these new reports, we must all : >try harder. : > : >Andrew Greeley is the author of "Priests: A Calling in : >Crisis" and the forthcoming novel "The Priestly Sins." : > : >http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/03/opinion/03GREE.html?ex=1079327131&ei=1&en=d7c7bb03a11ed7bb

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